My opinion on the units post patch.

I don't really see how new ACs are *that* much stronger. You don't need two separate ones to deal with a scout car and the squad it's carrying but they're just as weak to AT nades and guards as ever.

I don't have trouble keeping an Ostheer sniper alive early game but around mid game when mortars and tanks come out he invariably gets one-hit evaporated by something even with a reasonably responsible retreat. Certainly neither survivability nor damage is even close to parity with the Soviet sniper.

People definitely build Katyushas. Those things are awesome and very conveniently round out the T1->T4 tech. Soviet 82mm mortars don't seem good enough as an answer to lazy HMGs right now (I've had one barraging an MG sitting by a cutoff for a couple of minutes with about one kill). Maxims are alright at what they do (mostly discourage panzergrenadiers from attacking the ZiS). Soviet T2 is hardly unviable, especially now T34s are boosted a bit.

With the new patch and the upgrades to the T34, I don't think shocktroops are useless at all. Hell they were barely useless in last patch, they rape all German infantry, just keep Cons squad with them to stop any FHT from doing real damage.

Had some games with both Germans and Russkies, trying out all the units. Here is how I see it now.

Germans
- Grens: Continue to be swiss army knive of Ostheer
- MG42: Does its job
- Mortar: These are getting build, mostly useless because of mortar halftrack (but OK if you want to preserve some fuel I guess). I don't build them.
- Sniper: Useless
- Officer: Never see these and I certainly don't build them

- Scout Car: Owns russian Scoutcars.
- FLHT: Must
- Pak: Useless
- Pgrens: Can kill other infantry in splitseconds
- Mortar Halftrack: Has napalm. What else you want???


- Stug: Not really useless, but there is no metagame for these things (yet?). Has to competes with other german T3 units.
- Ostwind: Good against infantry but that's about it.
- PzIV: Still the first tank of Ostheer
- Command: I build these things when I get the doctrine.

- T4: Who builds these?

Soviets:
- Conscripts: Conscripts
- Sniper: Must
- Scout Car: Must
- Penals: Useless
- Guards: Must
- Shock: Useless

- Maxim: Useless
- Zis-26: Very good AT/AI weapon that noone ever builds
- Mortar: Useless
- PM-120mm mortar: These are the things I build and that I see getting build.

- HT: Useless except in those 4v4 where germans are spamming strafe
- T-70: Useless
- T-34: Viable first tank, still has to compete with T4->Su-85 techpath. I overall like going T3 first now as it gives much needed flexibility vs. german infantry hordes.

- Katyushka: Noone builds these
- SU-76: Useless
- SU-85: It's the motherfucking SU-85.

There are still some units that are way out of line. Particularly german T4, and soviet T2 continue to be never seen. That's mostly because none of these buildings offer something that can't be done more efficiently with the respective T3. Soviet HT and the SU-76 have zero roles they could fill and are a waste time and money. The HT is mispositioned in T3, it will always come too late to be useful. T1 OR T2 as techpath for soviets doesn't really work, because you really need the units from both buildings. Building both T1 and T2 in early game is certain death due to the high costs of soviet buildings, so skipping one is mandatory. I realize that the idea behind the soviet army is to be less flexible, more standardized equipment, but I'd say at this point soviet is shoe-horned into a singular opening.

Soviet early-mid is still fucked and forces you into scout car micro with flamers and Snipers. While clowncaring germans is fun, once they drive your scout cars of the field you have almost zero force projection. That's compounded by the fact that T3 is still far away at that point in time and T2 doesn't really do anything to solve that problem. Doctrinals also offer you nothing of value at that point. While that may be a concious design decision due to the decision-based teching soviets do, even playing conservatively will make you fall behind. Basically, if you don't fuk a couple of german squads with clown cars in the early game, it's GG.

Please keep in mind that I am writing this from my perspective and have only my own experience to draw from. I am certainly not the best player of this game and it is very possible that the metagame is radically different in the higher echelons of skill (though from what I am reading I doubt it), but these are the issues as I see them.

I fully agree and have not even come close to winning a single game as soviets since this patch completely owned early game every time the oora nerf has really fucked soviet play

While I understand this is just your opinion, a lot of your "useless" and "noone ever builds these" units I use and have had used effectively against me in 1v1, I'm top 50 on ladder (for what it's worth).

Yeah I don't agree with a lot of the "useless" statements. There are no useless units and surprise builds have an effect on their own. But maybe it's better to say "overperforming" and "underperforming" or "easy to use" and "harder to use". It's definitely more nuanced than "useless". I see a lot of high level players build Paks and Shock Troops. I don't understand how anyone could classify the T70 as "useless". Its more about the timing window things can appear in and building them at the right time and whether they fit with what else is going on.

Yeah I don't agree with a lot of the "useless" statements. There are no useless units and surprise builds have an effect on their own. But maybe it's better to say "overperforming" and "underperforming" or "easy to use" and "harder to use". It's definitely more nuanced than "useless". I see a lot of high level players build Paks and Shock Troops. I don't understand how anyone could classify the T70 as "useless". Its more about the timing window things can appear in and building them at the right time and whether they fit with what else is going on.

+1

Most units are pretty useful. But some are useful in more situations.

OP, you are greatly underestimating the power of the Mg42 and new Armored car.

I don't underestimate them. I build them every time.

While I understand this is just your opinion, a lot of your "useless" and "noone ever builds these" units I use and have had used effectively against me in 1v1, I'm top 50 on ladder (for what it's worth).

Well, I am not top 50 ladder and I can only tell you what I see. I am interested in replays where you lose the game vs. Penal Batallions or SU-76s.

German Sniper useless ? ...LOL the german sniper is not as good as the russian one but still hes definitely very strong.

At the risk of shooting my own plays in the foot...

The single strongest ability of the Ost Sniper is two-fold. 1, he can stealth while moving in cover. 2, as a 1-model entity he can stealth in areas that the Sov sniper might struggle.

Yes, I use the Sniper as a spotter, as 360 MP, while a hefty investment, is not as huge as it is for Soviets who need that MP to get more Cons (if con build) or other desired build-oriented requisites for sustaining your presence on the field and controlling locations.

The upkeep suffered due to the sniper can then be patched by using 1 or 2 bunkers to lock-down flank positions that you know your enemy will not be able to assault without a T70 or other investment. Given the 2.25s auto-fire rate of the mortar, having LOS is hugely important, and if you can get that LOS without even giving away your position? That's just too sweet to pass up.

This, like so many things, is map-dependant. Obviously getting a Sniper for scouting on Moscow Outskirts would be a waste, given the "flat" form of the map which sees wide areas being fought over simultaneously.

stupid T-34/85 never got love, BrownBear needs love as well

stupid T-34/85 never got love, BrownBear needs love as well

imo the t34/85 should be a heavy tank for russian t4 to repleace the SU-76 then put the Su-76 as a doctrinal unit ( like the STUH) in coh1 or in t3 as a light artillary/mobile gun or anything the devs want it to be.

stupid T-34/85 never got love, BrownBear needs love as well

there is no such thing as a "brown bear"

there is no such thing as a "brown bear"

Sturmpanzer IV Brummbär

does this make you look like a pro?

as a 1-model entity he can stealth in areas that the Sov sniper might struggle.

Cover is cover.

Yes, I use the Sniper as a spotter, as 360 MP, while a hefty investment, is not as huge as it is for Soviets who need that MP to get more Cons (if con build) or other desired build-oriented requisites for sustaining your presence on the field and controlling locations.

The problem with soviets is a lack of force projection in early-mid and snipers generally don't help there (for both sides). They can't defend, they can't attack and interrupt caps, they can wittle away at the enemy from behind. In this sense a sniper always returns his cost (I only see myself dropping below 100% in the score screen if I stupidly amove my sniper somewhere and forget about it). The problem is, unless you get a fuk it won't matter at all. You need to break the early german blob or you're dead.

The upkeep suffered due to the sniper can then be patched by using 1 or 2 bunkers

Why not build 1 or 2 bunkers and a Pgren instead?

imo the t34/85 should be a heavy tank for russian t4 to repleace the SU-76 then put the Su-76 as a doctrinal unit ( like the STUH) in coh1 or in t3 as a light artillary/mobile gun or anything the devs want it to be.

In my opinion I think that the T34/76 should be upgradable to the T34/85. Just how the Shermans worked in vCoH. I believe that would be pretty nice! Maybe moving the SU-76 to a doctrine as well.

Maybe moving the SU-76 to a doctrine as well.

The upcoming "Motorized Worthless Crap" Commander

Sturmpanzer IV Brummbär

does this make you look like a pro?

Brummbar does not mean "brown bear"

quote: " Brummbär does not mean "Grizzly Bear"; a literal translation would be "grumbling bear", but the term is generally used in a figurative sense. Furthermore, German soldiers nicknamed it the "Stupa",[1] a contraction of the term Sturmpanzer."

The upcoming "Motorized Worthless Crap" Commander

I lol'd

It would be pretty strong as a doctrine unit if it was 3 cp considering it's cost which would just be crazy at that and if I was 4 cp it would be "Worthless Crap" coming way to late.

I am not sure on numbers here but SU76 should be ZIS AT gun on wheels with muni free barrage, right? So it is not that bad unit but why would you buid it instead of almighty SU85? It needs some kind of wow factor to convince people to build them.

I am not sure on numbers here but SU76 should be ZIS AT gun on wheels with muni free barrage, right? So it is not that bad unit but why would you buid it instead of almighty SU85? It needs some kind of wow factor to convince people to build them.

The SU76 is more like the T34 gun on wheels without the infantry damage and with the ZiS barrage.

Ie. it has T34 level penetration and actually less damage now, and none of the shell aoe, so it can't reliably penetrate anything from the front and doesn't even kill infantry ever.

It's a unit revolving purely around the barrage, which is a good ability when it is free, but expecting it to do anything more than extremely light supportive AT otherwise is a fantasy. Even the SU85 is better at killing infantry thanks to low scatter, and even the T34 is better against tanks from the front (and especially from the back) because of the low gun damage on the 76

Then you consider that for only 30 fuel more you can get a katusha with a *much* better barrage that can hang around safe behind your lines unlike the su76 and you can see how the unit doesn't really have any role which the two other vehicles didn't already do vastly better.