Firefly need to be cheaper

to bad that german tanks must stay to hit something...time enough to shot tulips in this right moment and kill the enemy armor.

if u cant do it...learn it..it is not that hard.

to bad that german tanks must stay to hit something...time enough to shot tulips in this right moment and kill the enemy armor.

if u cant do it...learn it..it is not that hard.

Still not guaranteed sometimes they sail far over because of terrain, also you dont fight fireflys by sitting at max range with a panther and taking pot shots back and forth. You charge FF with panthers speed making it harder for them to tulip you as they are reversing and tulips seem more unlikely to hit at closer ranges. Or you charge it with double stugs like most people do and rape it if not supported by at guns etc.

edit: Because of its slow firing rate FF is easily chargeable and flankable as we have mentioned to you time over in this topic. Also its much harder to charge a jp4 because of faster firing rate and it cloaking bullshit can make it dissapear again before your even in range for a retalitory shot.

Should we also include JP4 first strike vet bonus too? That If you include FF vet, I can't see how this should not be included too.

No because it's trash. I don't think there is a single scenario where a single 40 damage boost actually improves its time to kill against any allied vehicle.7

New patch has made Jagdpanzer cheaper in pop cap to the firefly lol

• Jagpanzer IV: 14 to 15
• Firefly: 14 to 16

axis powercreep at it again

New patch has made Jagdpanzer cheaper in pop cap to the firefly lol

• Jagpanzer IV: 14 to 15
• Firefly: 14 to 16

axis powercreep at it again

maybe it was awefull who less units can have as okw player...you have 3 volks, 1-2 rakten, 1 stpio, 1 ober, 1 mg, 1 jgpz4, and a p4...and was by around 85popcap.


and than you play ost...you have 3-4 stugs, 2-3 p4, 3-4 gens, 2 mortars, 1-2 pios, 1mg and can maybe build one more tank...

No because it's trash. I don't think there is a single scenario where a single 40 damage boost actually improves its time to kill against any allied vehicle.7

A situation where tanks are not at full health and engaging against a multitude of damage dealers, including AT nades and infantry AT weapons.

In my experience it is very rare for 1 tank to go up against 1 tank destroyer and slug it out, usually there's a bunch of stuff going on and with multiple units firing.

A situation where tanks are not at full health and engaging against a multitude of damage dealers, including AT nades and infantry AT weapons.

In my experience it is very rare for 1 tank to go up against 1 tank destroyer and slug it out, usually there's a bunch of stuff going on and with multiple units firing.

Even if you assume that a snare or shrek has already done 80 damage, again the extra 40 damage from the jp4 doesn't actually improve time to kill. Since iirc the only 120 damage increment that axis has is the puna, in that specific situation the 40 extra damage would be a benifit.

But of course there could be possible situation, the extra 40 damage may be a benifit in specific circumstances, but discussions about its performance "in a vacuum " discussions like the ones that are occurring in this thread, the extra 40 damage by the numbers doesn't provide any benifit.

The extra 40 damage would help in a team game where somebody is using su76, ptrs' m42 troll guns, bounced zooks, an il-2 strike, greyhound, Stuart, valentine, iirc ml-20s do deflection damage as well... I mean in a vacuum it's not going to make a difference but hey, war is hell

^ exactly. Often enough tanks are damaged then repaired, but not all the way, and 40 damage is difference of life/death... or critical/main gun destroyed, etc.

Anyway, I would never say no to a bonus 40 damage.

Even if you assume that a snare or shrek has already done 80 damage, again the extra 40 damage from the jp4 doesn't actually improve time to kill. Since iirc the only 120 damage increment that axis has is the puna, in that specific situation the 40 extra damage would be a benifit.

But of course there could be possible situation, the extra 40 damage may be a benifit in specific circumstances, but discussions about its performance "in a vacuum " discussions like the ones that are occurring in this thread, the extra 40 damage by the numbers doesn't provide any benifit.

The why are FF tulips compared???

No because it's trash. I don't think there is a single scenario where a single 40 damage boost actually improves its time to kill against any allied vehicle.7

You realize that jp4 with is dissapearing bullshit also counters allied tds why doing its job as a tank destroyer also. The flanking bullshit is long gone limited on most maps and almost all axis infantry INCLUDING CALL IN have snares undermining the whole flank idea. It is actually one of the hardest tanks to destroy in the game making it easily vettable with minimal risk for players with a brain. Supported by invisible rakaten especially. It also can reverse and rotate at the same time making the turrent of FF a dumbass excuse as i told you obviously you put armor lock on a FF really good players can use other vehicles to fuck with its targeting like a p4 etc as it dissapears and still dps jp4 thing. Someone post a video of a medium ez8 chasing a jp4 you will find that even then a jp4 can back up easily at the same ammount of time before ez8 takes at least 2 shots maybe 3 before even the ez8 make one strike and it can rotate pretty much as pathing lets thhe ez8 navigate behind it. Truth.


Edit further clarification unless you totaly blindsight the jp4 and park your sherman in its ass pretty hard to destroy even then with minimal at support you will win. like say ez8 you WILL lose it just to take the jp4 out gauranteed it will be snared or rak support everytime

to bad that german tanks must stay to hit something...time enough to shot tulips in this right moment and kill the enemy armor.

if u cant do it...learn it..it is not that hard.

"accurate" on the move is a mainly US trait.

every other faction, including the british, get 50% accuracy penalty. FF get a slight better of 45%.

Actually the british definitely used to have fire on the move accuracy as well. Cromwell and comet definitely did but I'm unsure if they still do. Firefly I think had some too but not as much. It doesn't anymore I don't think though. (And never as much as shermans though)

From my experience my Jackson's never hit anything either while mobile or stationary so I would argue about it being a US trait. XD but that's probably just my luck.

You guys know the Panther got a health increase too right....

It's only fair that Allied vehicles get a health buff for their insane fuel costs. That's why Soviets are the only viable team right now because they have a 90 fuel tank.

The sherman and cromwell literally equivalents to the T-34 right now.

Also, when the firefly got a damage nerf, this also means it gains veterancy slower indirectly from this change.

I'm telling you guys over and over that the Relic balance team never explain the motives behind their balance changes, It's like they never knew COH 1 that Wher used to be the hardest to play in the early game. Now it's a completely reverse where any noob can play them and gain map control.

You can't argue against this, there's proof everywhere.
Wher players HAVE BEEN abusing this...; volks spam start straight into P4
Or volks spam straight into Stug.

You raise the fuel cost of stug/puma/222/p4 (currently abused)
Lower the fuel cost of allied light vehicles (currently unused)

DPS is misleading, I already give you time to the time kill at vet 3:
FF around 12 secs while a JP will need around 12 to 14

you rounded the figures. While the FF time come out even, rounding the jp4 time mean you artificially inflated the time to kill for the jp4.

This is misleading at best, outright lying at worse.

Here's the actual time without rounding:

(including fire/ready aim time)

FF time to kill is 12.375 secs (12 second without aim time)

jp4 time to kill is 12.11 - 14.54 (11.61 - 14.04 without aim time)

average for jp4: 13.325 with aim time, 12.825 without aim time


so after all the hype about the amazing FF vet 3, its time to kill a medium at vet3 is still nearly matched by the vet 3 jp4? we are talking about less than a second difference here.

This is in addition to the various other defensive bonus the jp4 also get.

Jump back to quoted post17 May 2018, 16:11 PMVipper

DPS is misleading, I already give you time to the time kill at vet 3:
FF around 12 secs while a JP will need around 12 to 14

you rounded the figures. While the FF time come out even, rounding the jp4 time mean you artificially inflated the time to kill for the jp4.

This is misleading at best, outright lying at worse.

Here's the actual time without rounding:

(including fire/ready aim time)

FF time to kill is 12.375 secs (12 second without aim time)

jp4 time to kill is 12.11 - 14.54 (11.61 - 14.04 without aim time)

average for jp4: 13.325 with aim time, 12.825 without aim time


so after all the hype about the amazing FF vet 3, its time to kill a medium at vet3 is still nearly matched by the vet 3 jp4? we are talking about less than a second difference here.

This is in addition to the various other defensive bonus the jp4 also get.

Are you serious? I wrote around 12 to 14 and according to you it is 12.11 to 14.54. If you want to consider a 0.11-0.54 sec difference as serious error, I actually presented JP4 to better than it is since the time I give is lower and thus it can kill faster.

And again you are not taking into account Tulip that can lower the time for FF to kill a medium to around 8-6 sec or the fact that the medium we are talking about can be a cheap T34/76 or far more expensive OKW PzIV.

I did not claim that FF is amazing, I simply responded to claim that JP4 is designed to counter mediums and FF is designed to counter heavies. They should be but they are not, since FF can hit and penetrate mediums with around 100% chance, Tulips allows FF to kill a medium with 1 reload, while vet allows it to kill them with 1 less shot.