Firefly need to be cheaper

This thread:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/70821/firefly-need-to-be-cheaper

next thread:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/70913/firefly-and-jackson-are-too-good


I suggest all you balance heroes start playing the game and spend less time writing text walls

That's unlikely. It would require our friendly neighbourhood one-tricks to admit they're not playing at the skill ceiling.

which is a poor example since the panther was stationary both time. The panther was sitting in front of a vicker trying to kill it, allow the firefly to take shot at it own leisure. Then it remain stationary as firefly drive up to it again

Even after taking both tulip rocket the panther still manage to back up, and would have likely retreated back to base if he didn't stop.

lastly, the panther was wounded already. 200+240+200 = 640, which isn't enough to kill the panther's 800 hp. The panther would have need to have been wounded already.

You did everything right, but it's not not a sign of how the firefly is worth 440 mp 155 fuel.

Eh, its not perfect, but there probably wasn't much he could've done to actually stop my firefly. Even if he did keep moving he probably would've had to move along the edge of the map and maybe I could've cut him off. The firefly did all the damage against the panther, I just didn't record the first shot that occured just before I started recording. You can tell the firefly had just shot since it was in range + vision from vickers and the firefly doesn't have a 4 second windup. My point is more, out of the 4 shots I took from that firefly it had 100% accuracy and 100% pen frontally. Also the turret to help flank the rak. Again 145F-140F and 380MP-400MP

This thread:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/70821/firefly-need-to-be-cheaper

next thread:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/70913/firefly-and-jackson-are-too-good


I suggest all you balance heroes start playing the game and spend less time writing text walls

you've not even played brits in 1vs1 in months and you're here lecturing others about playercards

look at my avatar to see my reaction

Try this with a JP4

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/261489406

What is this supposed to be proving here? Want me to make a video of a damaged FF sitting still trying to kill an MG while double stug drives up and wipes it in seconds?

hell I could do the same with one stug and stun lock considering in your sample the tank was only 75% health with no escape route. JP4 would have no issues killing damaged tank stuck on the edge of the map too

This thread:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/70821/firefly-need-to-be-cheaper

next thread:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/70913/firefly-and-jackson-are-too-good


I suggest all you balance heroes start playing the game and spend less time writing text walls

==================

I soooooo noticed those two threads put side by side.
Hmm. I suggest all allied TDs, bazookas, mines, AT-guns be removed from the game,
and axis armor be x1000000 and axis armor just 1-shot any allied unit squad, vehicle, building.
Also increase accuracy-on-the-move of panther to 3.0 and it's ROF to 1.0 or less. And it's shells
hit like SturmTiger's but with no cooldown. Add a stun, too.

Then, perhaps, the game would be balanced and people would stop bitching?

Allied TD nerfs point to one thing : Removing them from the game. So let's just do it
and be done with it. Including AEC3, UK sniper's anti-vehicle ability, Satchels, PTRD ATR,
the works, even gammon bomb.

Isn't game balance what we all want?

As a filthy nub attempting to get better at this game, I have realized that one of the best ways to learn CoH2 is to:

1) make note of people who provide 1 isolated case of something happening as an argument for a pattern or trend

and then

2) disregard everything they say

So far, I still suck, but am getting slightly better over time. This may be a practice effect though, so who knows.

What is this supposed to be proving here? Want me to make a video of a damaged FF sitting still trying to kill an MG while double stug drives up and wipes it in seconds?

hell I could do the same with one stug and stun lock considering in your sample the tank was only 75% health with no escape route. JP4 would have no issues killing damaged tank stuck on the edge of the map too

The point is, as stated above ^^ the turret IS FINE

It all depend on the target armor as you can see here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/56469/tank-destroyer-time-to-kill-stats

JP vs IS-2 time to kill
JP4 65.25 - 85.25
JP4 vet 3 50.74 - 66.27

FF vs KT
Firefly 82.75 - 107.50
FF vet 3 37.75 - 56.50
Firefly (Tulip) 66.25 - 91.00
FF vet 3 31.50 - 44.00

Also note how much better FF become with veterancy.




No it is not because:
It has sight of 45 360
Can stun any tank to close in with Tullip
Can have war speed available from vet 0
get 15% speed at vet 1
get turret rotation at vet 2

First, again you're using a chart with outdated data. the Post you're linking is from Sep 2016. The Firefly vet 3 was nerfed four months ago.

Secondly,
half truth is as bad as full false hood.

Here's the Full veterancy bonus of the jp4 and FF up to vet 3.

jp4 vet 1: cloak
ff vet 1 : +15% accel ( to 1.84) and +15% decel

jp4 vet2: +160 HP, +20% accu
ff vet2: -25% reload time, +25% turret speed ( to 24.3. panther is 33)

jp4: +20% top speed, +20 rotation speed, -10% reload time
FF vet3: +40 raw damage, +30% accuracy

The jp4 get better defense bonus with cloak and HP mixed in with a bit of offensive bonus. The Firefly get mostly offense bonus. They get different bonus to suit their play style, it's call asymmetric balance.

Third:

The same patch that nerfed the firefly vet 3 also nerfed the tulip as well. It's no longer a complete stun. it decrease its top speed to 25% for 2.5 second. This make a big difference because the tank's movement command is no longer interrupted.

this fact is explicitly spelt out in the patch note:

Tulip rockets no longer cancels move commands of the vehicle it hits

The firefly and tulip you have been quoting no longer exist

of course, to quote a certain someone:

Everyone makes mistakes from time to time, some learn from them other do not, some even pretent they didn't.

Everyone makes a mistakes from time to time, only the wise thou admit it, so congratulations. Some choose to insist in their error making more mistake in the process.

Again 145F-140F and 380MP-400MP

yes, 380mp 140f, same pop as the jp4.

This thread:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/70821/firefly-need-to-be-cheaper

next thread:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/70913/firefly-and-jackson-are-too-good


I suggest all you balance heroes start playing the game and spend less time writing text walls

I see wisdom in this man

The points I made are:
FF is more accurate than JP
FF gets deadlier with Vet than the JP
FF is equally good or better than JP vs heavily armored targets
FF is harder to Flank than Tiger

All of them stand.

Feel free update the examples I brought but you will see little difference.

the firefly might have better penetration, but its dps is so slow that it barely make the difference against the much higher dps jp4.


Alternatively, see how the jp4 fare against the highest armor unit for the british (290) verus how well the firefly fare against the panther.

as a simple calculation:
170/290 = .5862 * 28.16 = 16.507

210/320 = .6563 * 24.24 = 15.908

the DPS for the firefly is so low, that the lower penetration on the jp4 can keep up just by firing more shots.

did u count the 200 damage or did u miss it ?

@firesparks

what kind of buffs do you propose other then a price decrease?

because any other buffs like ROF buff what make the FF OP

did u count the 200 damage or did u miss it ?

640 hp vs 160 dmg = 4 shots.

640 hp vs 200 dmg = 4 shots.

It does not make any difference vs medium armor, only vs panther and above.

FF 2x200 + 2x120 = 640

A firefly can kill a medium with 1 reload, landing 2 Tulips or with 2 Piat hits.

A vet 3 FF does 240 damage 3x240 = 720 and thus kills a medium in 3 shots.

It makes quite a difference vs Meduims.

Yes, yes, FF will always have tulips ready off cooldown and brit player will always have 100 muni to dump, it'll also always will be shot at completely immobile target.

We get the ullumulu vibe.

Yes, yes, FF will always have tulips ready off cooldown and brit player will always have 100 muni to dump, it'll also always will be shot at completely immobile target.

We get the ullumulu vibe.

Stop spreading misinformation pls, Tulilps cost 80 mu not 100.

In addition your claim that FF damage:
"It does not make any difference vs medium armor, only vs panther and above."

Is simply inaccurate.

640 hp vs 160 dmg = 4 shots.

640 hp vs 200 dmg = 4 shots.

It does not make any difference vs medium armor, only vs panther and above.

I say again, that damage increase is still worth something and is really good.

People need to stop thinking in terms of tank "kills". In this patch repair takes a LONG time unless they have like 3 squads of sturmpioneers and if they do, you should be using your recon and artillerying them whilst they are repairing with that blob, that blob is worth like 1000mp and they will all be clustered and easy to kill. If you heavily damage a panzer 4/jagdpanzer etc, the tank is down for repairs for several minutes. This is ample time for you to push/attack/follow up with artillery. I believe the vet 3 buff also says it gives more penetration? or is it accuracy? which is a straight buff.

More damage = notably longer repair time <--- this is very very good for you.

Not to mention more damage means you are also more likely kill it if the vehicle has been damaged by other things (making the firefly very good at getting kill hits) and makes it easier to kill with other things (i.e. an ally's bazookas that deal like 1 damage ) Tanks are always going to be taking damage from other things at the same time which will make the extra damage usful, (allied ptrs rifles? bazookas? 6pdrs? other tanks? mines?. They all deal varied damage so it will not always be still 4 shots to kill, your firefly shouldn't be operating alone anyway.

People get scared of their tanks taking a lot of damage at once, especially if it's more than the amount they expect it to take, they are a lot more likely to get scared and pull out if a vet 3 firefly is shooting at them so you can scare them off diving you.

Also if you hit that tank 3 times, the maths state it will be on 40/640 hp... there is no way that tank still has an operational main gun.

I say again. Forcing something to repair for 4 minutes is very nearly as good as a kill, on 30 fuel a minute a person can build a panzer 4 every 5 minutes. (Obviously they aren't spending fuel to fix it however)

So yeah maybe 4 shots if it's on it's own which it shouldn't be. So if it has to take that extra shot, it's your own fault.

That changes what I've said how again?