better british grenade(WP and rifle grenade)

currently the british lacked mobile smoke until the arrival of their tank. The infantry also lacked a reliable way to clear houses as well.

Given this, the the two problem can be solved by giving the sappers access to white phosphorus grenade from the grenade upgrade. This would provide the british access both smoke and incendiary weapon.

The WP grenade wouldn't synergize with the flamethrower either. WP hurts both side so the WP smoke will block sapper from closing in.


(and the british did use wp grenade: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_77_grenade)

Secondly, the hand thrown grenade doesn't really fit the tommies' fighting style. They favor long range shooting even more the german. They would be better served using rifle grenade.

The british rifle grenade would be distinguished from the german by having a timer and being a bit more powerful. German rifle grenade used a impact Fuse grenade while the british rfile grenade were actually regular mills bomb.

Building clearing has been a nightmare for Brits, since ever, so the WP nade would make sense.
But i dont think that the Tommies grenade doesnt fit their playstyle, since its meant to be used defensively. When a squad is trying to get up close, they can toss it under their own feet.

Technically Brits are designed so that Wasp and Sniper with 100% accuracy can be used to clear garrisons. That being said I feel like Wasp is somewhat UP and if Sniper changes happen then 100% accuracy won't be special anymore so WP Grenades would be kinda cool - not that I think relic would accept a big-ish change like that at this stage in the game.

I also don't think Mill Bombs are that bad since they are much cheaper than USF grenades to unlock and are good both defensively and for getting rid of squads trying to stall VP capping.

I quite like the mills bomb as is. I do have a fondness for rifle grenades, but using hand grenades defensively against charging squads is something a rifle grenade isn’t as good at compared to the current mills bomb. Perhaps adding them in as a bonus for going hammer or anvil would be cool.

I both like and dislike the WP nade idea. Cons used to be the only squad that could deny cover amd garrisons, it was a good justification for them being subpar otherwise now volks can do it better AND fight better. Of sappers can do it too ontop of lmgs and AT and a small target size and 5 men amd 210mp idk..

Building clearing has been a nightmare for Brits, since ever, so the WP nade would make sense.
But i dont think that the Tommies grenade doesnt fit their playstyle, since its meant to be used defensively. When a squad is trying to get up close, they can toss it under their own feet.

Garrisons are a nightmare for brits and usf always have been now add fuel cost to wasp with no buff for it already being a baby sitter club. But okw complains they have to build a fackin truck to get the best garrison clearer and cover denier compiled with sturm pios that can shoot through walls of buildings with no windows on said side and can win anyway by just using the ring around the rosie trick. Makes sense. Sturm pios can also kill usf emplacements just with dps from there mahike guns if they get behind one. Why cant tommie guns destroy bunkers?

wasp is a nice idea but it's not sufficient.

The ost have the significantly better flameHT and even then mortars and flamethrower are still the preferred option.

How can the wasp be expected to serve as the british's main garrison cleaner when it is inferior to the rarely used flame HT?

Garrisons are a nightmare for brits and usf always have been now add fuel cost to wasp with no buff for it already being a baby sitter club. But okw complains they have to build a fackin truck to get the best garrison clearer and cover denier compiled with sturm pios that can shoot through walls of buildings with no windows on said side and can win anyway by just using the ring around the rosie trick. Makes sense. Sturm pios can also kill usf emplacements just with dps from there mahike guns if they get behind one. Why cant tommie guns destroy bunkers?

Their teching up gives them a hulled down tank with a bofors on it.
UKF get a RNG arty that's seldom used and prob won't hit anything.

But when you do dump ammo into arty, you're still gonna be rolled by infantry since you don't have any ammo left for bren guns lol

Their teching up gives them a hulled down tank with a bofors on it.
UKF get a RNG arty that's seldom used and prob won't hit anything.

But when you do dump ammo into arty, you're still gonna be rolled by infantry since you don't have any ammo left for bren guns lol

You need Brent's for EZmode that all wfa players prefer. For most 5 models on elite long range infantry and a murder machine MG is enough... Try diversifying instead of metaing the game to shit

You need Brent's for EZmode that all wfa players prefer. For most 5 models on elite long range infantry and a murder machine MG is enough... Try diversifying instead of metaing the game to shit

How is bren spamming meta? When all axis players can volks spam + 1 mg for stug spam?
It's so strong USF and UKF can't even be played.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03ZxA4fFOWg
Watch this game DevM vs. Vonivan

at 20 minutes Wher dives into allied base and wipes all the AT tanks
Then DevM comes back with . . pure zis gun spam to delay the game (but still loses)

wasp is a nice idea but it's not sufficient.

The ost have the significantly better flameHT and even then mortars and flamethrower are still the preferred option.

How can the wasp be expected to serve as the british's main garrison cleaner when it is inferior to the rarely used flame HT?

Incoming wasp nerfs by the way, it costs 10 fuel and 75 munitions (from 70)

Now its more common place I think for UKF to build trenches infront of buildings or sandbags

I think the importance of building counters is largely overestimated in ballance discussions. People seem to expect countering better positioned opponent with only one squad and a cheap ability. That only supports blobbers more and more.

The truth is, that even though there are some units and abilities that excel against buildings, the game is designed so that you don't really need them to fight garrisons. There are multiple mechanics that support players fighting against garrisons:
1. Firepower of garrisoned squad depends on the number of windows. It is the attacking player that chooses the side, so it is safe to say that it is equal to the number of windows in a side that has least of them, varying from 0 to 2.
2. Garrisoned squad members have a chance o being hit that doesn't depend on their position inside building. That means you can hit them through the walls. Together with 1st point, it means full health squads closing to buildings often lose less models than the ones inside.
3. Finally, garrison cover is worse than green cover at ranges over 10. Which means, that if you put your men in cover nearby a house, they will win the fight sooner or later. The first point often can make that process even faster.

To conclude, good positioning and local numerical advantage are the main anti-garrison tools that every faction has at their disposal. Anything beyond this is a factional benefit and should not be considered as required for a faction to stay competitive.

Some of the ideas that came from that mindset were wery damaging to ballance of infantry engagements. A volk granade is a prime example of ability that completely breaks the rules of infantry combat for the sake of countering garrisons. All that while sturmpios with high dps have always done just find against them.

I think the importance of building counters is largely overestimated in ballance discussions. People seem to expect countering better positioned opponent with only one squad and a cheap ability. That only supports blobbers more and more.

the british's only building counter early one is the mortar pit and the wasp, neither of which are reliable.

There's a whole world of difference between having even just one single reliable garrison and having none.

And British have poor peak DPS early on. The whole segment about building to building fight apply mostly to the US rifle (garand) or the sturmpio (stg44). (ignoring the fact they have 81mm mortar)

Vickers do pretty well VS garrisons I find and garrisoned are damn nasty. Tbh Tommy's in garrison will beat anything they come against with a Lil RNG assuming the windows are there. But if bolster was a squad by squad upgrade instead of a universal ID be behind snappers getting a damn flamethrower because bits do seem to struggle.
Maybe wp would be fine idk... Might synergyse with emplacement a bit well tho

I think the importance of building counters is largely overestimated in ballance discussions. People seem to expect countering better positioned opponent with only one squad and a cheap ability. That only supports blobbers more and more.

The truth is, that even though there are some units and abilities that excel against buildings, the game is designed so that you don't really need them to fight garrisons. There are multiple mechanics that support players fighting against garrisons:
1. Firepower of garrisoned squad depends on the number of windows. It is the attacking player that chooses the side, so it is safe to say that it is equal to the number of windows in a side that has least of them, varying from 0 to 2.
2. Garrisoned squad members have a chance o being hit that doesn't depend on their position inside building. That means you can hit them through the walls. Together with 1st point, it means full health squads closing to buildings often lose less models than the ones inside.
3. Finally, garrison cover is worse than green cover at ranges over 10. Which means, that if you put your men in cover nearby a house, they will win the fight sooner or later. The first point often can make that process even faster.

To conclude, good positioning and local numerical advantage are the main anti-garrison tools that every faction has at their disposal. Anything beyond this is a factional benefit and should not be considered as required for a faction to stay competitive.

Some of the ideas that came from that mindset were wery damaging to ballance of infantry engagements. A volk granade is a prime example of ability that completely breaks the rules of infantry combat for the sake of countering garrisons. All that while sturmpios with high dps have always done just find against them.

Good god, it’s almost as though someone wants the game to actually make sense! Lol

Seriously though, buildings SHOULD be tough to clear and you are right that they are growing more and more pointless as more counters are invented for a problem that doesn’t really exist.

I’d be in favor of actually removing some building counters or nerfing them now that mortars are being buffed in the antibuilding role.