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russian armor

State of USF artillery

6 May 2018, 17:28 PM
#21
avatar of Pegasus 1-1

Posts: 27


The major artillery is a rocket barrage disguised as a off map. It is nowhere as strong as the typical doctrinal off map. The shells are weakers, there are less of them, and they arrive sequentially with longer pause between them.


Dosent justify it being invisible imo , could still spoil somebodies day. Atleast with rocket arty you get a LOUD announcing noise.
6 May 2018, 17:31 PM
#22
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4


And late tech indirect fire is the only similarity here.
Its a regular mortar on a light tank. It supports a playstyle that does not exist and fills a niche that is not needed and overlaps with 2 much cheaper and comparatively performing units that come way earlier.

Have you actually used the scott? It's amazing and borderline OP, held back by weak veterancy and lackluster barrage. Doesn't even matter because the auto attack is so good at wiping squads. Once you get smoke discharge they are practically invincible unless you play like a moron.
6 May 2018, 17:39 PM
#23
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



Or maybe something else could be done?

Regardless of pack howi performance Major and his barrage are very cost efficient.



...The shells are weakers, there are less of them, and they arrive sequentially with longer pause between them.
...

By vet 2 Major gets +6 shells.

The ability is fine for cost of unit and mu cost. It is great for blowing up bunkers and OKW trucks.

One can also use the decoy to keep enemy guessing.
6 May 2018, 17:56 PM
#24
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post6 May 2018, 17:39 PMVipper

Regardless of pack howi performance Major and his barrage are very cost efficient.



By vet 2 Major gets +6 shells.

The ability is fine for cost of unit and mu cost. It is great for blowing up bunkers and OKW trucks.

One can also use the decoy to keep enemy guessing.


the vet 2 bonus is +3 for a total of 9 shell. It is not +6 shell for a total of 12 shells.




Dosent justify it being invisible imo , could still spoil somebodies day. Atleast with rocket arty you get a LOUD announcing noise.


major artillery does given off an pre-barrage audio cue in addition to the smoke warning. About 5-7 second of sounds of howitzer firing off in the distance.

yes, you can remove the smoke and keep the audio cue in the game.


it is not silent



Lastly, those major howitzer shell are not that strong. The stuka rocket deal 25% more damage than the major howitzer shell (200 vs 160) with a better AOE.
6 May 2018, 18:07 PM
#25
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post6 May 2018, 17:39 PMVipper

Regardless of pack howi performance Major and his barrage are very cost efficient.

I have yet to see you tell something is not "very cost efficient" about literally any unit or ability, regardless how bad it was.

Yes, major arty looks amazing on paper, everything looks amazing on paper.
M-42 looks amazing on paper and I'm 100% positive that if someone made a topic on how bad it is, you'd be the first one screaming "how amazingly cost efficient it is for its cost and how it should never be changed".

But its a gimmick that provides muni strain and is of limited use.
Imagine you paying 60 muni every single time you want to use a panzerwerfer barrage and its max range is 50.
Barrage looks amazingly on paper, but would the unit be useful on the long run?

Same thing for major, most squishy unit in the whole game and a constant muni strain if you want to utilize him, making it impossible to save for weapon upgrades or off-maps.
6 May 2018, 18:31 PM
#26
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4



Imagine you paying 60 muni every single time you want to use a panzerwerfer barrage and its max range is 50.
Barrage looks amazingly on paper, but would the unit be useful on the long run?

If the panzerwerfer came for free I would.
6 May 2018, 18:50 PM
#27
avatar of Pegasus 1-1

Posts: 27




major artillery does given off an pre-barrage audio cue in addition to the smoke warning. About 5-7 second of sounds of howitzer firing off in the distance.

yes, you can remove the smoke and keep the audio cue in the game.


it is not silent




You may have misunderstood how I phrased my comment , : "Atleast with rocket arty you get a LOUD announcing noise."

I said this to compare the screams / zooms of rockets against the faint and distant off map arty.

Hope I get my point accross :)


Even quiet noise still dosent justify a rather powerful ability having no marker smoke.
6 May 2018, 18:53 PM
#28
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930



You may have misunderstood how I phrased my comment , : "Atleast with rocket arty you get a LOUD announcing noise."

I said this to compare the screams / zooms of rockets against the faint and distant off map arty.

Hope I get my point accross :)


Even quiet noise still dosent justify a rather powerful ability having no marker smoke.


are we really going to get into an argument about whether the "whoosh" have more decibels than the "boom" from a howizter?
6 May 2018, 18:55 PM
#29
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1


I have yet to see you tell something is not "very cost efficient" about literally any unit or ability, regardless how bad it was.

Yes, major arty looks amazing on paper, everything looks amazing on paper.
M-42 looks amazing on paper and I'm 100% positive that if someone made a topic on how bad it is, you'd be the first one screaming "how amazingly cost efficient it is for its cost and how it should never be changed".

But its a gimmick that provides muni strain and is of limited use.
Imagine you paying 60 muni every single time you want to use a panzerwerfer barrage and its max range is 50.
Barrage looks amazingly on paper, but would the unit be useful on the long run?

Same thing for major, most squishy unit in the whole game and a constant muni strain if you want to utilize him, making it impossible to save for weapon upgrades or off-maps.


Here you go again talking about me once more, I am not sure why you are obsessing with me but you should give it rest.

The ability can easily take out bunkers that cost the same munition and more manpower, clear garrison and help kill OKW trucks.

In addition the decoy/barrage can be keep the opponent guessing and relocating Soviet, Ostheer and OKW would love to such an ability available stock. In addition Major give much more.

The unit and ability is cost effective.
6 May 2018, 18:55 PM
#30
avatar of Pegasus 1-1

Posts: 27



are we really going to get into an argument about whether the "whoosh" have more decibels than the "boom" from a howizter?


In game it does , and thats what counts , no? ;)
6 May 2018, 19:01 PM
#31
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930



In game it does , and thats what counts , no? ;)


This is an entirely dead end argument. Even if we were to rip the sound from the game file there is still a matter of sound mixing and localization.


The howitzer barrage is accompany by a warning sounds in addition to the smoke. This is by definition not "silent".

Anyone will tell you that relying on smoke alone to dodge off map is not reliable. It's entirely possible for you to miss the initial warning smoke just by looking elsewhere. The sound of howitzer firing It is a perfectly audible sound cue.

And we also have example of On map howitzer in game whose only warning is the sound of firing gun.


6 May 2018, 19:07 PM
#32
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Smokeless Major Artillery just sounds frustrating to play against.
6 May 2018, 19:13 PM
#33
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post6 May 2018, 19:07 PMLago
Smokeless Major Artillery just sounds frustrating to play against.


just like smokeless panzerwerfer and smokeless stuka.


the major artillery also give you a longer time to dodge than either the panzerwerfer or stuka. The rocket artillery have a shorter time to target.
6 May 2018, 19:17 PM
#34
avatar of adamírcz

Posts: 955

BTW removing smoke from Major, would make the prank artillery/ fake red smoke kinda irrelevant
6 May 2018, 19:31 PM
#35
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260



just like smokeless panzerwerfer and smokeless stuka.


the major artillery also give you a longer time to dodge than either the panzerwerfer or stuka. The rocket artillery have a shorter time to target.


Those are expensive, very loud, need to be fairly close by and die to one tank shell though. The Major's a cheap infantry squad.
6 May 2018, 19:32 PM
#36
avatar of Pegasus 1-1

Posts: 27



This is an entirely dead end argument. Even if we were to rip the sound from the game file there is still a matter of sound mixing and localization.


The howitzer barrage is accompany by a warning sounds in addition to the smoke. This is by definition not "silent".

Anyone will tell you that relying on smoke alone to dodge off map is not reliable. It's entirely possible for you to miss the initial warning smoke just by looking elsewhere. The sound of howitzer firing It is a perfectly audible sound cue.

And we also have example of On map howitzer in game whose only warning is the sound of firing gun.




Im not saying its silent...

Im saying its quiet compared to the rockets for example...

Be my guest and rip the files , but im not debating that topic lol.



"just like smokeless panzerwerfer and smokeless stuka. "

Valid , but becuase those two units are so much louder , you know its coming. If shit is going down and there are other abilities smashing the deck being loud ( Railway arty / contentrated barrage im looking at you ) , they will drone out the distant howitzers no? Unless they are coded to mix and amplify when its loud.


6 May 2018, 19:49 PM
#37
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1



Im not saying its silent...

Im saying its quiet compared to the rockets for example...

Be my guest and rip the files , but im not debating that topic lol.



"just like smokeless panzerwerfer and smokeless stuka. "

Valid , but becuase those two units are so much louder , you know its coming. If shit is going down and there are other abilities smashing the deck being loud ( Railway arty / contentrated barrage im looking at you ) , they will drone out the distant howitzers no? Unless they are coded to mix and amplify when its loud.




The sound could be amplified if required. I milite for removing smoke on the major since long. They don't make sense atm seeing how the arty barrage is poorly effective.

USF artillery is just inexistent today. If it is not an issue in 1vs1, it is in 2vs2.
6 May 2018, 19:56 PM
#38
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

Infantry covers your lack of actual indirect fire, the Scott is great, but it's more of a mobile mortar than actual indirect fire, use the Priest and Mortar HT until the T0 Mortar is buffed.
6 May 2018, 20:07 PM
#39
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post6 May 2018, 19:31 PMLago


Those are expensive, very loud, need to be fairly close by and die to one tank shell though. The Major's a cheap infantry squad.


the major do have to spend 60 munition for the ability.

it is not a perfect comparison but that's part of asymmetric balancing.

Infantry covers your lack of actual indirect fire, the Scott is great, but it's more of a mobile mortar than actual indirect fire, use the Priest and Mortar HT until the T0 Mortar is buffed.


I doubt it will be long before the usf mortar got nerfed again. (or we spend month waiting for the nerf)

The USF early game is too powerful for a wehr mortar clone. it should never have been added. Both the soviet and wehr need to delay their early game to gain access to a mortar.

Having a t0 mortar, especially for a faction like the USF, is too powerful.

and in the late game, even a wehr mortar will have problem keeping up with rocket artillery.



Im not saying its silent...

Im saying its quiet compared to the rockets for example...

Be my guest and rip the files , but im not debating that topic lol.




really. that's a convenient unprovable falsehood you've found.

6 May 2018, 21:58 PM
#40
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2



Ah the argument that burned out the 2013 era playerbase...


Well to be honest after playing CoH2 for about a thousand hours I am also fairly burned out.

Even modded for some reason I just can't stand the game anymore.

While I find myself going back to CoH after some large breaks, for some reason the game just feels like a timeless masterpiece.

Even with the new units and features that CoH2 offers, which I absolutely love, like for example the new fire effects, vaulting, more realistic hull down, units coming off map, the USF having the M7 Priest instead of the M2 105 which I never really understood in CoH but whatever, the British having a mobile machine gun, the Comet, the MG34, the LeIG, the Pak 43, the E8 and so on and so on, I think you're getting what I'm pointing at, it just feels... dull I suppose, like it's too tryharding to be an e-sports game and Relic just lost their way by trying to be like Blizzard with StartCraft, and I think that's also fairly evident from Dawn of War 3 as well.
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