Why must USF be so hard to play/suck so hard?

USF teching is the silliest thing in the game yet.
If you don't go LT, you have no way to control blobs with mg.
If you don't go captain, you have no way to deal with early panzers.
Ostheer can easily get a p4 out way faster than USF can get a sherman out, because of the upgrades that cost fuel and not going for the upgrades for riflemen is a suicide. USF is the worst faction to play in the game right now.

USF teching is the silliest thing in the game yet.
If you don't go LT, you have no way to control blobs with mg.
If you don't go captain, you have no way to deal with early panzers.
Ostheer can easily get a p4 out way faster than USF can get a sherman out, because of the upgrades that cost fuel and not going for the upgrades for riflemen is a suicide. USF is the worst faction to play in the game right now.

I guess this is where weapon racks come in.

You went LT? Get some zooks.
You went cap? Get some BARs.

Offtopic but frankly mortar pit should be reworked IMO. It makes axis players rage and it hamstrings Brit players who don’t want to use emplacements. If nobody likes it why is it still a thing?

On topic: only issue I take wth usf really is how stupid their teching system is. You either get all the suppression tools and no real at or all the real at and no suppression tools and an rng popcap sink (pack howie). That and maybe lacking in the garrison clearing department despite being a super aggressive faction. I’m always in awe when I play the vanilla factions and I can just grab a flamer and start roasting garrisons so easily or just huck lava nades about with okw. That being said ost doesn’t need to be any more vulnerable to usf.

Best thing about the mortar pit is the rare times NOW that it actually wipes a squad and the voice over where it says something like “raise the flag!” Theres another voice over line too if it wipes a unit. Hilarious.

I guess this is where weapon racks come in.

You went LT? Get some zooks.
You went cap? Get some BARs.

Was working till last patch, today going captain first is kind of suicidal without airborn to drop you a HMG. At the same time, Pz4 have become extremely potent vs infantry and zook are not mean to counter mediums anymore.
There is a number of reasons why Pz4 hit the field first,
1- because USF LV have been overnerfed to the point their fuel investment doesn't worth it.
2- Zook have become ineffective vs Pz4 unless you massively equip them, to not say to blobb them.
3- It is probably a mix of a lot of changes done on the last patch but Ostheer can easily rely on heavy T1 build, skipping T2 and still have a lot of map presence even if you have a M20 or M15 on the field. It is also map dependent.

I'll say the underlying issue of USF today is this faction has been designed around design strength and weaknesses. Little by little all his strength have been nerfed to be on par with other factions (you know the standardization stuff) but without compensating their weaknesses. And even when they did it it came with another nerf behind (giving Mortar to counter HMGs and then removing smoke on RM).

Looking at how the modding team is standardizing all factions (for good or bad), I can't see how they will be able to keep USF balanced without making HMG and Atgun available at the same time from a unique tier.
I mean, if they keep it that way, T1 need to be superior in AI function to other factions and T2 superior in AT function to other factions because their is a natural balance between having superior AI but inferior AT and versa.
If they change it and leave USF T1 AI not better than any other, then you make it equal to Oshteer or OKW, then you give it an Atgun accessible the same way they both do.

Maybe its cause you're using Pschrecks vs an AT gun LOL. Volks with LMG. I wish my opponet would donate my volks LMGs. All I get is StGs

What are you talking about? It's common place to see Pgrens drop shreks

There is a number of reasons why Pz4 hit the field first

It was because USF and UKF were designed to be oppressive in the early game.. and easily cut off early game Axis fuels. But now they struggle to and the game is even, but nothing else has been patched to change from the old meta.

So now we see earliar T2 from Axis because it's so easy to get map control

5 minute mark
Volks outnumber Allied infantry
10 minute mark
Allies FORCED to go anti tank
15 minute mark
Stug spam comes, lose all your light vehicles or they are zoned off the map
20 minutes
Forced to make more AT guns, die to indirect fire

Forced back to playing soviets
Conscripts are our last good infantry to abuse the early game, and stop fast T2

Even Devm gave up on using USF lol

Honestly moving the AT gun/HMG to T1 but unlock after tech might be a good test to see if that helps carry USF through the mid game/help them hold ground where generally they lose it by mid game due to blobs (or OKW simply having more units b/c they have more cost effective t1 units)

Offtopic but frankly mortar pit should be reworked IMO. It makes axis players rage and it hamstrings Brit players who don’t want to use emplacements. If nobody likes it why is it still a thing?

On topic: only issue I take wth usf really is how stupid their teching system is. You either get all the suppression tools and no real at or all the real at and no suppression tools and an rng popcap sink (pack howie). That and maybe lacking in the garrison clearing department despite being a super aggressive faction. I’m always in awe when I play the vanilla factions and I can just grab a flamer and start roasting garrisons so easily or just huck lava nades about with okw. That being said ost doesn’t need to be any more vulnerable to usf.

It's still a thing because someone with power on the balance team, or over the balance team says it won't change. Blame them. The group on the forum who says "my asymmetry is going away" doesn't help either.

You say that like STGs are bad... I'd kill for a non doc good at all ranges, great for bobbing all your infantry into a death ball kinda upgrade when I play EFA. kids these days ain't happy with their fancy omnipotent infantry and bonuses for teching up... Back in my day if we wanted durable infantry they couldn't fight for a damn, or if they could they were expensive. They sure as shit weren't core infantry... If they had a snare they had to pay for it, if they had a weapon upgrade it was because they needed it... Wfa has made yall soft

Try the BAR. just like the StG upgrade except instead of taking 2 slots it takes 1, and you can double equip them. It's not like doctrines hamstring EFA currently. All meta EFA docs contain some form of OP buff to AI power for your army. PPSH cons, G43 grens, Guards. Top it off with IL2 or Tiger Ace and you got yourself no reason to pick any other doctrine.

What are you talking about? It's common place to see Pgrens drop shreks

You said you were shooting AT guns with pschrecks. Ofc they don't deal damage vs a support team.

It's still a thing because someone with power on the balance team, or over the balance team says it won't change. Blame them. The group on the forum who says "my asymmetry is going away" doesn't help either.



Try the BAR. just like the StG upgrade except instead of taking 2 slots it takes 1, and you can double equip them. It's not like doctrines hamstring EFA currently. All meta EFA docs contain some form of OP buff to AI power for your army. PPSH cons, G43 grens, Guards. Top it off with IL2 or Tiger Ace and you got yourself no reason to pick any other doctrine.



You said you were shooting AT guns with pschrecks. Ofc they don't deal damage vs a support team.

And what's the fuel cost on top of teching for the STGs? And the per gun price? Bars are better but Bars are a choice the stg is not. The stg is a 100% no Brainer. Getting access to them doesn't delay your Armour, upgrading to them doesn't effect your field presence. There is literaly no reason ever not to get STGs the very second you can. Bars are better but that doesn't make STGs bad. Fucking players wanting everything to be the exact same is what's killing this damn game... Christ.

And what's the fuel cost on top of teching for the STGs? And the per gun price? Bars are better but Bars are a choice the stg is not. The stg is a 100% no Brainer. Getting access to them doesn't delay your Armour, upgrading to them doesn't effect your field presence. There is literaly no reason ever not to get STGs the very second you can. Bars are better but that doesn't make STGs bad. Fucking players wanting everything to be the exact same is what's killing this damn game... Christ.

I never said the StGs were bad, they're just not BARs. What is the price of free squads for USF? Pointing out tech enabled bonuses just warrents a return of the same kind.

I never said the StGs were bad, they're just not BARs. What is the price of free squads for USF? Pointing out tech enabled bonuses just warrents a return of the same kind.

and they are not BARs for a reason. 1 BAR costs the same as 2 (or is it 3?) and again dont need anything but trying to get tanks as quickly as possible to get, it doesnt stop you from building units and doesnt require you going to base to get them. they arent as good because it would be IMBA for them to be.

(also when i say idky people think stgs are bad and you come back with how they are worse than BARs it sure reads like they are bad, so sorry if i assumed)

they are a great upgrade on a great unit that has literally no draw back at all.

also doctrinal does make a difference. doesnt matter if current meta commanders have them or not, i bought them, all, its the age old question of "why should i be hamstrung and unable to compete if i dont pick a certain commander"
volks got them becasue they lost their shrek, but they didnt need them and it only further enforced the WFA design of "dont diversify your BO and lump your infantry together with fire on the move weapon upgrades that work well at all ranges"

its bad design for both, but at least the BAR has some impact on decision making (bad BAR blobs are every bit as cancer as there is)

and they are not BARs for a reason. 1 BAR costs the same as 2 (or is it 3?) and again dont need anything but trying to get tanks as quickly as possible to get, it doesnt stop you from building units and doesnt require you going to base to get them. they arent as good because it would be IMBA for them to be.

(also when i say idky people think stgs are bad and you come back with how they are worse than BARs it sure reads like they are bad, so sorry if i assumed)

they are a great upgrade on a great unit that has literally no draw back at all.

also doctrinal does make a difference. doesnt matter if current meta commanders have them or not, i bought them, all, its the age old question of "why should i be hamstrung and unable to compete if i dont pick a certain commander"
volks got them becasue they lost their shrek, but they didnt need them and it only further enforced the WFA design of "dont diversify your BO and lump your infantry together with fire on the move weapon upgrades that work well at all ranges"

its bad design for both, but at least the BAR has some impact on decision making (bad BAR blobs are every bit as cancer as there is)

I agree. There is no tactical decision making with BARs or StGs, or G43s v K98s or ppshs, DP28s. It's not just 1, it's all. Except for maybe certain units getting CQC upgrades because they're CQC units so they still have weaknesses.

Volks got StGs because without them they'd be nothing but BAR blob food. And it wasn't put all in vet since that would give a large munitions advantage to OKW. They could've done something with obers but it still raises the issue of having 3-4 volks early game that dont scale. StGs was just the best path to making the unit scale without breaking their vet or having Obers arrive at minute 5.

It all comes down to who has power for changes, and what they decide to do/best thing to do.

I agree. There is no tactical decision making with BARs or StGs, or G43s v K98s or ppshs, DP28s. It's not just 1, it's all. Except for maybe certain units getting CQC upgrades because they're CQC units so they still have weaknesses.

Volks got StGs because without them they'd be nothing but BAR blob food. And it wasn't put all in vet since that would give a large munitions advantage to OKW. They could've done something with obers but it still raises the issue of having 3-4 volks early game that dont scale. StGs was just the best path to making the unit scale without breaking their vet or having Obers arrive at minute 5.

It all comes down to who has power for changes, and what they decide to do/best thing to do.

Meh. Sturm are good as a starting unit and volks even unupgraded are a decent holding unit. If say schwere was a 2 part upgrade giving obers and maybe the luchs (return jp4 to med and the flak track to mech) with an upgrade to unlock the rest okw would have been fine. Obers struggle even now because double armed and vetted allied squads. Coming earlier would have aleviated that slightly. Would have been a better direction than stgs I think...
And giving an omnipotent munitions sink was never a thing for the notoriously floaty soviet so I don't see why having munitions would be too much for the okw.

It was because USF and UKF were designed to be oppressive in the early game.. and easily cut off early game Axis fuels. But now they struggle to and the game is even, but nothing else has been patched to change from the old meta.

So now we see earliar T2 from Axis because it's so easy to get map control

5 minute mark
Volks outnumber Allied infantry
10 minute mark
Allies FORCED to go anti tank
15 minute mark
Stug spam comes, lose all your light vehicles or they are zoned off the map
20 minutes
Forced to make more AT guns, die to indirect fire

Forced back to playing soviets
Conscripts are our last good infantry to abuse the early game, and stop fast T2

Even Devm gave up on using USF lol

There is indeed an issue with USF build order, prices and build time attached to each unit. Ostheer and OKW can field more unit than USF and faster until the Lieutenant is hitting the field.
Going more than 3 riflemen before lieutenant impact a lot your manpower income when on the same time OKW and Ostheer can field 4 gren + HMGs or 4 volks + ST while as USF you are stuck into 1 RE + 3 RM + possibly a mortar if you need it. Then when the lieutenant hit the field you can re-equilibrate the balance, but that's a lot of time outnumbered in unit and firepower.

Meh. Sturm are good as a starting unit and volks even unupgraded are a decent holding unit. If say schwere was a 2 part upgrade giving obers and maybe the luchs (return jp4 to med and the flak track to mech) with an upgrade to unlock the rest okw would have been fine. Obers struggle even now because double armed and vetted allied squads. Coming earlier would have aleviated that slightly. Would have been a better direction than stgs I think...
And giving an omnipotent munitions sink was never a thing for the notoriously floaty soviet so I don't see why having munitions would be too much for the okw.

The problem with volks is the snowball effect associate to STGs not having downsides. BARs have downside: fuel price to unlock and heavy munition cost to equip.

Because the game is historically accurate and they sucked back in the war.

Because the game is historically accurate and they sucked back in the war.

You want historical accuracy?

Germany lost.

History talk Really ?
If 1-1 with British i sure Germany army with weak navy cannot
land at United Kingdom land like Allies Force Land at Normandy
If 1-1 with Soviet I sure Soviet will win but not end within 1945