Guards need a adjustment

U are only act like this because ullu open this Tread.

Believe me, if VonIvan opened a thread of such stupidity and bias, I'd be reacting exactly the same.

Everybody test like this...everytime i see Performancetest..see test it in a static fight szenarios. No micro no nothing.

No, they do not.
The only tests that do make sense in such environment are tank vs tank tests and I'm not talking about these beyond retarded "my super tanks suddenly slipped on banana peel and lost tracks, leaving their rear wide open for slowest vehicle in game" ultra biased tests, but actual slugfests like T34 vs P4 or Panther vs Comet.

Maybe cover...but without too.

There is literally no map or a possible multiplayer scenario that would play out in a-move, zero micro, no ability, no cover setting outside of "I just started playing coh2, why my rifles do not kill tanks, they did it in red alert?" 4v4 noob fests.

You can look mostly every testvid...all have this setup.

No, they do not and the ones who do share similarities in infantry testing, do not draw as retarded conclusions as you do. Presenting a thing that literally NEVER happens in game is most certainly NOT a good test.

Dont get more angry when you read something from me...calm down ..or make your own Performancetest and proof other facts.

Angry?
I can see how you could get that impression since my writing style does look angry at times, but its been a long time since I have been that entertained. Probably the last one who could measure up to you and your bias was the famous LOL-Cake.

I'll give you an advice: Performance test will never give any kind of accurate results if you will never use a setting that is most common and contrary to what your rank tells me, a-moving without any kind of micro or even attempts to use nades or cover is not meta play.

Do you want to tell us thats guards are weak? Good balance? Look like you are biased...like me.

Guards are too strong for the time they arrive on field.
Therefore, they have been delayed and will arrive around 10th minute now.
They won't be any weaker, because they are supposed to be very expensive and potent.
What's your problem again?

They won't be any weaker, because they are supposed to be very expensive and potent.
What's your problem again?

lel

expansive?? Ever checked their reinforce cost per model? it is cheaper than a gren!

for this performanche? really to cheap. Ever checked the reinforce cost for panzergrens, obers and fallis??

lel

expansive?? Ever checked their reinforce cost per model? it is cheaper than a gren!

for this performanche? really to cheap. Ever checked the reinforce cost for panzergrens, obers and fallis??

You serious?

You're going to use "if we kill 10.000 guards and 10.000 grens then grens are more expensive" argument here again?

See, this stuff.
This stuff is exactly why you are so entertaining. You can pull literally ANYTHING out of your ass to support your argument even though you know full well that you are completely and utterly wrong.

I refuse to acknowledge you are THAT dumb to not know how reinforcing models work, that its based on squad cost AND model count and that units are balanced in that regard and the actual units who reinforce for less then they should have are 4 man tommies(reinforcement balanced around 5 man squad) and most of axis squads(PGs, Spios, falls, obers all reinforce for LESS then they should have in relation to squads total cost).

you act like again that there is no advantage to have 6model squads.
serious? you want to tell me, you would love to get 4models for the same price like other get 6model squads with more firepower, more hp and other advantages like less wipes, better recrewing etc?

in the actuall game status? which is full of mines, of indirect fire and wiping maschines? are u dumb?

there is a BIG advantages to have 6models squads which cost only 28mp....while german sqauds cost 40mp per model....and wipes easily often through the first indirect shot/ medium hit.

you never play axis...why do u think, you can speak about the axis side?

What's name of this map that you use for unit testing?

Engineers can kill obers too. Need nerf too?

What's name of this map that you use for unit testing?

its the range map from the mod section:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=703184792&searchtext=range

its the range map from the mod section:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=703184792&searchtext=range

Thank you.

You have tu decide OP. Either you compare squads in your tests and then compare squad cost, or you compare single models and then you can compare reinforcement cost. Picking and choosing two that suit your argument better only makes the bias more apparent.

Also, your test was so close, that if I was you I would think about things like "statistical significance" and I would check how they work in different conditions, especially the ones they were designed to fight in. This test can only be considered as prelude to some real evidence.

you act like again that there is no advantage to have 6model squads.
serious? you want to tell me, you would love to get 4models for the same price like other get 6model squads with more firepower, more hp and other advantages like less wipes, better recrewing etc?

I'm telling you to learn how mechanics you want to QQ about work, so for once you do understand what you are talking about. So stop covering your ears and eyes while screaming "lalalalala I don't hear you" then spouting whatever you want to tell instead of what makes sense.

in the actuall game status? which is full of mines, of indirect fire and wiping maschines? are u dumb?

What about your mines?
What about your indirect fire?
What about your wiping machines?
Do you start to see how there is a number of additional factors deciding engagements, which are impossible to include in pointless vacuum tests?

Do you start to see why vacuum tests on anything else then frontally facing tanks make no sense?

there is a BIG advantages to have 6models squads which cost only 28mp....while german sqauds cost 40mp per model....and wipes easily often through the first indirect shot/ medium hit.

If we completely ignore the fact that soviet weapons are balanced to fight 4 man squads and axis weapons are balanced to fight 6 man squads you would be right.

But since we can't ignore that and attrition is comparable, you're still wrong.

you never play axis...why do u think, you can speak about the axis side?

I've got 80%+ win ratio on axis in 2v2 at and am floating between rank 50 and 150 on them.
I do believe that gives me a better insight on what axis can and can't do, then your struggle for 50% win ratio at 700-900 rank in 4s.

And if soviets are so easy to play, why do you have 44% wins and almost rank 2500 with them?
Is it because you suck and have no idea what are you doing? Or are soviets actually underpowered?

Remember kids, there is no micro, no abilities and no cover in coh2.

This is why ullumulu "tests" are 100% valid.

Also guards:
Cost more.
Are doctrinal.
Have more expensive AI upgrade.

More expensive unit beats less expensive unit.
More shocking news at 11.

I'd like to point out that vet 3 Guards will beat vet 5 Falls most of the time even without DP-28 upgrade.

Still I don't think that provided "proof" is not enough evidence to call for Guards nerf as I think it is not valid to compare Guards to Falls in terms of direct combat efficency.

I'd like to point out that vet 3 Guards will beat vet 5 Falls most of the time even without DP-28 upgrade.

Still I don't think that provided "proof" is not enough evidence to call for Guards nerf as I think it is not valid to compare Guards to Falls in terms of direct combat efficency.

If ullumulu kept making his tests, we'd see that commandos losing to LMG grens all the time, because he always uses that no micro, no cover, no ability method which does not give an accurate representation of squads performance.

Falls and guards have completely different roles.
Guards are meant to fight directly as a frontline infantry.

Falls are not, obviously falls will be losing to everything that isn't a perfect situation for them-they have all the tools to create these perfect situations for them and are supposed to do it. Its infiltration infantry that picks their engagements, there is no logical reason why they would ever be fighting other squad out of cover and outside of optimal distance as they are able to close that distance if needed or engage from favorable cover position if wanted. Even capture points will have a cover for them to decide if they want to pick a fight and when.

Vet 5 is hardly an argument as well as 2 out of these stars are non combat utilities most of the time, OKW is no longer resource starved faction and they no longer are supposed to roflstomp everything at vet5.

What guards can:

- slow armor
- through grenades
- fight effectivly armor and infantery on a performanche lvl which axis infantery only can choose one

big advantages:
- 6 model squad allow to run to the enemy front and have chance to survive multiple shots from mediums and mortars
- can easily recrew any teamweopans without any fear to get a squad wipe
- cheap cost per model


conclusion to nerf this unit:
- choose one: very good vs armor OR infantery. not bot
- make them ok vs both targtes...but not a so effectivly like actually
- make the expansiver to reinforce

Or make them arrive letter so they fight vs vetted infantry.

Like it is being done now.

/thread

make the expansiver to reinforce

I'd like to remind you that out of the two units you compare, falls are the one that already has reinforcement discount. Which obviously means that squad reinforcement (which is the only comparable reinforcement cost) is significantly more expensive for guards.

Falls also have two, better granades and snare. Which technically makes them "both AT and AI" unit as well. Yet, you don't seem to scream to nerf them.

I repeated this test (Obersoldaten squad versus Guards Rifle Infantry squad) several times at the same ranges, on the same map, with one change.

I gave both sides heavy cover.

The Obersoldaten won in every test.

I repeated this test (Obersoldaten squad versus Guards Rifle Infantry squad) several times at the same ranges, on the same map, with one change.

I gave both sides heavy cover.

The Obersoldaten won in every test.

No vet vs no vet?

No vet vs no vet?

obers win with green cover:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/256491401

I'd like to remind you that out of the two units you compare, falls are the one that already has reinforcement discount. Which obviously means that squad reinforcement (which is the only comparable reinforcement cost) is significantly more expensive for guards.

Falls also have two, better granades and snare. Which technically makes them "both AT and AI" unit as well. Yet, you don't seem to scream to nerf them.

tell me....are one faust with a high CD is compareable with guards, which cann shoot every 6-7sec to the tank and kill it alone...while fallis would need some minutes and some hundreds of muni to kill a tank?

tell me....are one faust with a high CD is compareable with guards, which cann shoot every 6-7sec to the tank and kill it alone...while fallis would need some minutes and some hundreds of muni to kill a tank?

I've never seen guards kill a tank on their own. Never. Usually they don't even pen and their snare is worse than faust or AT nade, although it is cool that you can use it from garrison.