Hip-firing LMGs in cover: because bipods are silly

I’ve akways thought it was odd that troops in cover fire LMGs from the hip, completely ignoring the obvious bipod attaches to them and the advantage they would gain by utilizing it. From someone who has actually fired several belt fed weapons systems from various positions I can attest that the grenadier hip fire technique in game is super cool and fun, but horribly inaccurate. It is used on initial contact to provide immediate fire, but subsequently the prone position is used if in the open or cover is used as a rest if available.

I propose a slight visual change to reflect realism in cover use and bipod support:

1. In heavy and light cover as well as buildings, troops holding an LMG will use the crouching or kneeling animation with the LMG held to the shoulder. This puts the bipod approximately on the edge of the cover if a shell hole or wall and makes it appear supported.

2. Troops in the open continue to either hip fire if elite, or otherwise go prone to shoot.

3. This will have zero effect on balance, but visually will improve the look and feel of the game. I’ve akways thought it was silly that sandbags are built waist high and then troops all stand behind them fully exposing their chest instead of acutually using the cover. This will also add a visual indicator that some troops fight better from cover, like tommies and osttruppen, because they are shooting from a supported position.

4. I’m not sure about how hard this would’ve to implement, but if it were to be included in the SBP then at least we could all gain something that isn’t controversial like the horrible changes to the op op opie Cromwell.

5. Respond in the poll and support your answer with a comment. If you think it should remain the way it is, then why? If you like my idea, then why as well.

Anything animation related is a no at this point.
Hell, it was a no back when relic was still here, given how JP4 never got his cannon animation done.

I wouldn’t think it would require new animations, just using existing ones in different roles. Like how existing Paratroopers and Obersoldaten fire from the hip at all times while regular infantry go prone to shoot if out in the open. There already is a kneeling shooting animation present for shoulder fired weapons in game.

Modders, please advise if this is feasible or if it’s a pointless discussion. I want to start helpful diologue but if it can’t be done then it can’t be done.

This made me think about the idea to give LMG grens the ability to set up their LMGs to fire in a cone depending on the angle of cover.

Of course that's no idea for CoH2 but I still find this idea interesting.

Animation can effect balance.

If model had to ground every time it had to fire on target and if the target was moving around the model, it would have to get up and go down again lowering the DPS or rotate while being on the ground that would look awkward.

I wouldn’t think it would require new animations, just using existing ones in different roles. Like how existing Paratroopers and Obersoldaten fire from the hip at all times while regular infantry go prone to shoot if out in the open. There already is a kneeling shooting animation present for shoulder fired weapons in game.

Modders, please advise if this is feasible or if it’s a pointless discussion. I want to start helpful diologue but if it can’t be done then it can’t be done.

Paras and obers can do this, because they can fire on the move.
Getting close to LMG squad and 'circle strafing' them with infantry is ancient method to counter LMG DPS at close range and ppsh cons or other cqc squads used it since forever.

LMGs going prone is not a visual effect, but also a balance decision, where if you want to Change direction of shooting, you need to reset your aim with lmg, contrary to regular light arms and elite troops lmgs, which just turn like regular rifles.

While I don’t disagree that it could effect balance, I am willing to bet that it would only be a negligible amount. Most firefights from cover with LMGs that the LMG team wins (and is supposed to win) are frontal engagements at range. The only time it would negatively impact the performance of an LMG team would be at close range or in response to a close range flank, where they are supposed to lose anyway. So I’m gonna say balance isn’t the issue, it’s an issue of can it be done with the tools at hand.

I always wanted proper bipod animations for my little machineguns. Sadly...

It is currently not possible to switch animations around like that with the current restrictions set on the tools. The required files are blocked from being built/burned into a mod. I dont think any of the (known) animations would fit anyways. There might be some unused animations that we could use.

As for the balance stuff, animations are almost never an issue with balance/fire-rate, it only looks like it because the new animations added with ardennes assault broke alot of the existing animations (the slow turn-around bug and such). All that is controlled by and tuneable by changing the aim times in the attribs.

This made me think about the idea to give LMG grens the ability to set up their LMGs to fire in a cone depending on the angle of cover.

Of course that's no idea for CoH2 but I still find this idea interesting.

They kind of did this with the old "Defensive Stance" USF Riflemen got with 1919s but we all remember how much fun it was to play against basic infantry that could suppress lol

It's nothing more than my own assumptions, but I always just guessed they went with the hip-firing bipods in cover to avoid having to make enough nice and clean animations for putting the bipod against cover of many different sizes - for example, sandbags come up to around soldiers' waists while abandoned vehicles tend to be at least up to their necks. Thus, they went with two-sizes-fit-all with the prone and hip-firing animations.

It's nothing more than my own assumptions, but I always just guessed they went with the hip-firing bipods in cover to avoid having to make enough nice and clean animations for putting the bipod against cover of many different sizes - for example, sandbags come up to around soldiers' waists while abandoned vehicles tend to be at least up to their necks. Thus, they went with two-sizes-fit-all with the prone and hip-firing animations.

The original suggestion would be to use the shoulder fired rifle animations associated with most regular weapons when a unit is in cover and forcing the squad to take a knee. Therefore you wouldn’t need new animations, just to repurpose old ones. A guy holding an MG42 like a rifle while kneeling would put the bipod at about the right height for most cover. Look at what BARs look like in cover. They always have the bipod down and are always shoulder fired. So when they take a knee behind a wall or in a crater it almost looks like they are using the bipod to support it.

Now of course if it can’t be done that’s another matter, which appears to be the case, so it’s a moot point.

And all units already look stupid shooting into the sides of tanks and tank wrecks when they use them for cover. Lol

They kind of did this with the old "Defensive Stance" USF Riflemen got with 1919s but we all remember how much fun it was to play against basic infantry that could suppress lol

As far as I remember, Def Stance was available everywhere while my "idea" would only be available behind green cover and only in the direction the green cover is facing :-)