A stealthed AT gun is ridiculous the way it has currently been done, stealthing over and on red cover? Why is that a thing? Is there any reason at all why it can't act like other stealthed units and be required to move from cover to cover in order to retain its stealth? Why does the rak need to be a special snowflake?
What's with the raks stealth?
18 Apr 2018, 21:04 PM
#1
Posts: 773
18 Apr 2018, 21:33 PM
#2
1 
Posts: 147
Because it already moves incredibly slowly while cloaked, and having to keep it in cover would severely gimp its usefulness
18 Apr 2018, 21:40 PM
#3
Posts: 246
Give it proper AT gun range, and I'm all for removing the stealth.
18 Apr 2018, 22:34 PM
#4
Posts: 1527
Permanently Banned
Give it proper AT gun range, and I'm all for removing the stealth.
Not sure why Latch doesn't realize this? Oh wait, he only plays Brit. But even Brit only players should realize this. Easily one-shotted 50 range at gun.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
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19 Apr 2018, 00:06 AM
#5
Posts: 246
Not sure why Latch doesn't realize this? Oh wait, he only plays Brit. But even Brit only players should realize this. Easily one-shotted 50 range at gun.
Easily one-shotted due to not having a cover modifier, while simultaneously requiring like five shots to demolish anything.
Worst of all worlds, and terrible penetration chance on top of it all. But no, by all means, tell me more about how the stealth is somehow OP.
19 Apr 2018, 01:39 AM
#6
Posts: 5279
Isnt the rak guaranteed to pen allied mediums? Ive never notuced it bounce.... They dont need to move while cloaked, its bad design but they COULD have bonuses when attacking from camo to ensure that its shortcomings (make it guaranteed or close to guaranteed to hit, or longer range) but creeping rak is cancer and it should go
#stalinwept
27 Apr 2018, 02:59 AM
#7
Posts: 34
Raketenwerfer 43 Puppchen was created as basically a panzershrek on wheels with better range and accuracy than the hand held launcher. It’s mobile cheap, and can hide in buildings. However it doesnyhwve the power of a panzershrek. It doesn’t live up to the tank terror name.
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27 Apr 2018, 05:56 AM
#8
Posts: 474
Not this again... look, the raketen has pretty obvious pros and cons that have been mentioned several times.
The problem is that it's one of those retardedly designed units that is simultaneously annoying to play with and against due it having cloak but also being unreliable and easily killed by anything. It's basically a dice roll if the crew obliterates a light vehicle fast or shit their pants and do nothing when ordered to fire.
Sorry, katitof, but in this case I say just throw it away and give OKW a Pak40 clone.
The problem is that it's one of those retardedly designed units that is simultaneously annoying to play with and against due it having cloak but also being unreliable and easily killed by anything. It's basically a dice roll if the crew obliterates a light vehicle fast or shit their pants and do nothing when ordered to fire.
Sorry, katitof, but in this case I say just throw it away and give OKW a Pak40 clone.
27 Apr 2018, 06:19 AM
#9
Posts: 307
Yeah,I not a big fan of full time cloaked units. That was a problem in COH1 with snipers and PAK. The super slow movement makes it hard to be OP unless he has 3 or 4 of them and it one shots anything in their range. Anything that can't be countered by the other player makes for poor game design. But imagine that all factions would have the same type of AT gun. That would make for a really boring game.
27 Apr 2018, 06:44 AM
#10
Posts: 5279
Yeah,I not a big fan of full time cloaked units. That was a problem in COH1 with snipers and PAK. The super slow movement makes it hard to be OP unless he has 3 or 4 of them and it one shots anything in their range. Anything that can't be countered by the other player makes for poor game design. But imagine that all factions would have the same type of AT gun. That would make for a really boring game.
As i said, just make it reliable when attacking out of camo. Make it an ambusher not a hunter
#stalinwept
27 Apr 2018, 07:17 AM
#11
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
What is annoying is it cannot be countered by its natural counter, infantry. Just hit retreat button. maybe give it the max range and camo but remove retreat button.
27 Apr 2018, 07:38 AM
#12
Posts: 587
What is annoying is it cannot be countered by its natural counter, infantry. Just hit retreat button. maybe give it the max range and camo but remove retreat button.
Yep, but it can be one-shotted by tanks, which the rak is supposed to counter.
Pinnacle of game-design, our rak is.
Being bad at the game isn't something balance patches can fix.
27 Apr 2018, 07:40 AM
#13
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
There are just not enough tools to deal with stealthed units.
27 Apr 2018, 10:40 AM
#14
Posts: 307
As i said, just make it reliable when attacking out of camo. Make it an ambusher not a hunter
It is an ambusher already, hard to be a hunter with such a slow speed. But sometimes, if lucky you can also hunt. A poor player will go tank first when assaulting , he should go infantry first, always. If he doesn't the tanks are going to run into the AT guns.
27 Apr 2018, 14:10 PM
#15
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
Why does the rak need to be a special snowflake?
Because it has shorter ranger than other AT guns and no gunshield which provides Green Cover to some of the weapon crew of PAKs if I understand correctly - so Rak is less durable. It's mostly a holdover from original OKW design where Volk Shrek blobs could cover for rinky-dink Raks but once they redesigned OKW they had to buff Rak to compensate and somehow they ended up with Stealth. Just be glad they got rid of that ridiculous 100% movement speed at Vet 1 shenanigans. Even then, some tanks like HE Shermans laugh at Rak.
27 Apr 2018, 14:35 PM
#16
Posts: 3260
A stealthed AT gun is ridiculous the way it has currently been done, stealthing over and on red cover? Why is that a thing? Is there any reason at all why it can't act like other stealthed units and be required to move from cover to cover in order to retain its stealth? Why does the rak need to be a special snowflake?
It's not. ZiS camouflage and tank stealth works this way too.
Having them automatically cloak in cover could be interesting but it'd make the Raketenwerfer more difficult to use in its current role. You couldn't cloak them and creep up to enemy lines in stealth any more. You'd have to hide them in static positions and bait tanks into them. That could be interesting but you'd need a big enough ambush bonus to make it worth it. Or maybe a stun shot it can only fire from the new stealth?
27 Apr 2018, 16:27 PM
#17
Posts: 5279
It is an ambusher already, hard to be a hunter with such a slow speed. But sometimes, if lucky you can also hunt. A poor player will go tank first when assaulting , he should go infantry first, always. If he doesn't the tanks are going to run into the AT guns.
The problem is that it CAN hunt i believe. Granted i mostly play 4s with friends at this point but using a rak for scouting and infiltration to knock out things like ambos and katys is 100% doable. I would much sooner give it say +40 damage out of camo than let it hunt.
#stalinwept
27 Apr 2018, 17:38 PM
#18
Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1
Isnt the rak guaranteed to pen allied mediums? Ive never notuced it bounce.... They dont need to move while cloaked, its bad design but they COULD have bonuses when attacking from camo to ensure that its shortcomings (make it guaranteed or close to guaranteed to hit, or longer range) but creeping rak is cancer and it should go
I dont think I've ever seen it bounce on a medium out of camo, but I have seen it miss all the time.
Also one thing to note about raken survivability is that all the models bunch up before turning around and retreating, this means that a retreating rak is super likely to get one shot by indirect or AOE as the models basically stack ontop of one another.
bg /l
27 Apr 2018, 18:07 PM
#19
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
I dont think I've ever seen it bounce on a medium out of camo, but I have seen it miss all the time.
Also one thing to note about raken survivability is that all the models bunch up before turning around and retreating, this means that a retreating rak is super likely to get one shot by indirect or AOE as the models basically stack ontop of one another.
RW has quite high penetration at 200/190/180 it would probably be better like other rockets with lower penetration and deflection damage (maybe lower damage a bit).
Crew is usually to close one to another even when not retreating it gets one shoted quite often. Some damage reduction could really help the unit.
(basically lower offensive performance for some defensive performance.)
27 Apr 2018, 18:45 PM
#20
Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1
RW has quite high penetration at 200/190/180 it would probably be better like other rockets with lower penetration and deflection damage (maybe lower damage a bit).
Crew is usually to close one to another even when not retreating it gets one shoted quite often. Some damage reduction could really help the unit.
(basically lower offensive performance for some defensive performance.)
Ya Id agree since basically Rakens become hit and run units. You camo up to a vehicle with 2-3 and burst is then insta retreat. It be nicer if the raken actually had some staying power so it could hold ground instead of trying on the jp4 or p4 to hold ground.
bg /l
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