I strongly oppose the Soviet sniper change

Your 5 minutes isn't up yet.

))))

We can't have reliable statistical data on whether snipers are "too durable" or not. I don't know how to resolve this issue into non-opinionated non-biased set of claims based on pure facts.

Maybe we could do some modelling using unit stats...

xD xD XD

Go to time out. You’ve been very very bad. You need to think about what you’ve done.

EDIT: I'll reverse question to make it more obvious:
why does Wehrmacht sniper after patch have same durability as Soviet one even though it faces less overall DPS?

Because it doesn't.

Sov sniper (live) has more hp than ost (110 vs 82). Sov sniper is too durable. Hp is nerfed.
Why does it shoot slower? it faces smaller sqauds (name 1 non-doc 5 man axis sqaud that isn't volks).

And for the kicker, giving sov sniper same hp and same dps as ost sniper will kill ostheer (support weapon faction anyone?).

So thats why. Hope it is all clear now.

A OST player who try to kill Soviet sniper with his sniper, in most case, doesn't know how to play this game correctly.

You just want to drag us to the old COH1 sniper warfare by changing Soviet sniper to 1 man.

Congratulations, you just called luvnest a noob.

And you used a strawman, get out.

Sorry, but this is complete bullshit. For multiple reasons:
1. LVs are getting buffed against snipers
2. Snipers get their RA nerfed.
3. Even this patch, most snipers die to flanks, especially soviet ones. Many die to indirect fire as well.

Not sorry, this is horeshit.

1. Good players can have their counters out before lv's hit.
2.Only on retreat (still a good change, but good luck getting close to snipers).
3. 82 hp means snipers don't die to indirect fire. And above rank 200 (where balance starts) infantry don't get close to snipers.



Snipers are a pain to balance and discuss, because not only do they shit on 90% of coh2 mechanics, they can also only be used by good players.

So discussing balance with average players is even more useless than normal.

So discussing balance with average players is even more useless than normal.

coh2 community in a nutshell...maybe time to enforce some rules on balance threads?

every argument just ends in "i am right because I have better ranks"... it´s funny how elitist some people are. In C0H2 of all games lol...

This is getting silly (as usual) The soviet sniper vs ostheer is far too hard to counter particularly on open maps in the small game modes.

The question is not should it be nerfed/counters buffed but rather is dropping to one model the best solution to achieve this for balance and/or gameplay.

coh2 community in a nutshell...maybe time to enforce some rules on balance threads?

every argument just ends in "i am right because I have better ranks"... it´s funny how elitist some people are. In C0H2 of all games lol...

That is how every game that exists is balanced: The best player provide feedback, the game is balanced. A competitive game is a game that people will play, and will make money. To have a competitive game, you need competent players to balance the game. A game designed around catering to noobs is not a good idea from a profit standpoint. If noobs want to play their own version as they wish it to be, the CoH2 mod tools are right there. Go ahead and create "blvckdream's perfect vision for coh2" mod and have fun. The rest of us who enjoy playing a game that requires skill and is competitive and is fair will continue to provide feedback on the balance patch.

This is getting silly (as usual) The soviet sniper vs ostheer is far too hard to counter particularly on open maps in the small game modes.

The question is not should it be nerfed/counters buffed but rather is dropping to one model the best solution to achieve this for balance and/or gameplay.

Exactly.

I think that with all the buffs to sniper counters already planned, it would be a bad choice to also completely rework the Soviet sniper into a one man unit. There are a lot of possible second and third order effects that can happen and massively change the meta or break other units. I think the best solution is to tweak some stats and buff the counters, as already planned, and leave the Soviet sniper as a two man team. I fear that trying to do too much all at once will create more problems than it solves.

That is how every game that exists is balanced: The best player provide feedback, the game is balanced. A competitive game is a game that people will play, and will make money. To have a competitive game, you need competent players to balance the game. A game designed around catering to noobs is not a good idea from a profit standpoint. If noobs want to play their own version as they wish it to be, the CoH2 mod tools are right there. Go ahead and create "blvckdream's perfect vision for coh2" mod and have fun. The rest of us who enjoy playing a game that requires skill and is competitive and is fair will continue to provide feedback on the balance patch.

Yes and the fact that this is completly wrong is proven by our Spring Balance Patch. Where "top-level 1v1 players" have their say. Result is stupid stuff like nerfing dead units even more (Sturmtiger and AVRE) or making RNG cannons like the ISU get more scatter, so it´s even more RNG. Great.

We also get very helpful stuff like replaing ML-20 with B4 in tank hunter doctrine. Which again, makes a bad doctrine even less useable.

Thanks but I´d rather see no balance changes in the future instead of this non-sense.

And by the way, you are wrong again, top-level 1v1 doesn´t get Relic/Sega any profits. The people you call "noobs", which really are 90% of the playerbase, are who buy the game/dlcs etc. So no, the game shouldnt be balanced by a handful of people to suit their own personal needs. Being good at COH2 doesn´t mean your balance opinions are good.

So when you say "the rest of us" keep in mind that this is really only 5-10% of the COH2 playerbase and doesn´t represent the community itself. Just look how many players play 1v1 compared to the larger game modes.

COH2 was not designed to be a competitive game, it´s designed to be played by people you call "noobs". This is not SC2, CS:GO, LoL, ...

3- Improve incendiary shot 64dmg AoE. Lethal and reliable to kill sniper squad, non lethal but damaging to other units.

I'm just gonna point this out is a big no no. 64 damage in the current AoE of the incin would make the sniper win ANY engagement with support. 1 K98(grenadier) round out of green cover + that = dead model. Lowering the AoE defeat the purpose of the stun ability. Although I like the idea, it would just destroy engagements.

Like i said, balance all snipers identically against a 5 man squad. Then we have the mirror match thats being sought. If its fine for brits to suffer with 4 man squads and 4 man weapon teams because the soviet have 6 man squads there is no reason for ost to be immune while okw is fielding 5 man squads. 5 models is middle ground.

Like i said, balance all snipers identically against a 5 man squad. Then we have the mirror match thats being sought. If its fine for brits to suffer with 4 man squads and 4 man weapon teams because the soviet have 6 man squads there is no reason for ost to be immune while okw is fielding 5 man squads. 5 models is middle ground.

Ignoring ‘fairness’ do brits actually have a major balance issue with the OST sniper?

Because it doesn't.

Sov sniper (live) has more hp than ost (110 vs 82). Sov sniper is too durable. Hp is nerfed.

You can still bleed Sov sniper for 90 MP when it loses model. You can't bleed Wehrmacht sniper if you didn't killed him. A mortar shell can still one-shot Soviet Sniper Team.

Why does it shoot slower? it faces smaller sqauds (name 1 non-doc 5 man axis sqaud that isn't volks).

ONCE AGAIN why does Wehrmacht sniper shoots faster when it faces 4-man Tommies and USF/UKF support weapon crews as well as some of the other 4-man squads?

And for the kicker, giving sov sniper same hp and same dps as ost sniper will kill ostheer (support weapon faction anyone?).
[...]

EXACTLY. But they are RAISING Soviet Sniper rate of fire while nerfing its durability. KEEP it 2-man, increase rec acc a bit. Do NOT raise rate of fire in order to compensate for durabiliy nerf.

What's funny is that AS A MOSTLY SOVIET PLAYER (and sniper user) I think that this change is overall a BUFF to Soviet sniper. I still oppose this change as I hate that homogenization trend going on lately.

I mostly play 4v4 with my friends and almost never lose Sniper to small arms fire. I do lose it occasionally to mortar shells. 82 HP is a good thing to have in such case. ON TOP OF RAISED RATE OF FIRE.

ONCE AGAIN why does Wehrmacht sniper shoots faster when it faces 4-man Tommies and USF/UKF support weapon crews as well as some of the other 4-man squads?

I could come up with a rationalized explanation for you, but in all likelihood its just because USF and UKF came after Wehr.

coh2 community in a nutshell...maybe time to enforce some rules on balance threads?

every argument just ends in "i am right because I have better ranks"... it´s funny how elitist some people are. In C0H2 of all games lol...

Sigh, strawmans abound, but i'll keep it simple: can't balance a game around people who don't know what they are doing. And no one knows how to use snipers.

You can still bleed Sov sniper for 90 MP when it loses model. You can't bleed Wehrmacht sniper if you didn't killed him. A mortar shell can still one-shot Soviet Sniper Team.

One word: RNG. It's frustration from both sides if 2 models survive at 2 hp each or 1 model drops at first salvo. Same with mortars.

And I happily pay 90 mp to keep a sniper alive.

ONCE AGAIN why does Wehrmacht sniper shoots faster when it faces 4-man Tommies and USF/UKF support weapon crews as well as some of the other 4-man squads?

5 man upgrade? Besides the fact that ost sniper was nerfed precisely because of the brits and I also stated "brits are a can of worms". I wouldn't focus so much on the exception of coh2 gameplay that is brits.

EXACTLY. But they are RAISING Soviet Sniper rate of fire while nerfing its durability. KEEP it 2-man, increase rec acc a bit. Do NOT raise rate of fire in order to compensate for durabiliy nerf.

What's funny is that AS A MOSTLY SOVIET PLAYER (and sniper user) I think that this change is overall a BUFF to Soviet sniper. I still oppose this change as I hate that homogenization trend going on lately.

I mostly play 4v4 with my friends and almost never lose Sniper to small arms fire. I do lose it occasionally to mortar shells. 82 HP is a good thing to have in such case. ON TOP OF RAISED RATE OF FIRE.

Common ground at last. Small arms should be a danger to snipers, not the RNG of mortar wipes.
Our difference lies in the 1 man, you oppose "homogenization", I call it balance since it will move the sniper away from RNG/prayer counters to counterplay that both sides can calculate and work with.

The best factions have acces to the same tools with similair applications. Diversity for the sake of it is cancer.

Ignoring ‘fairness’ do brits actually have a major balance issue with the OST sniper?

They will after the 100% accuracy vs Garrisons go through.

They will after the 100% accuracy vs Garrisons go through.

A constructive comment - thank you.

I would have went into more detail if I wasn't rushing out of the door to go to work. Haha.

Unlike the Soviets, they can't "Oohra!" to safety.
Unlike the USF, they can't lay down smoke grenades quickly.

Having good garrison cover to hide at least bought them more time to respond with either Mortars (While Pyro Tommies gave the line of sight from a Trench), Vehicles or Counter Snipe. Without being forced to give up territory too quickly.

That being said, I really think it would have been better to bring the British Sniper's Garrison Accuracy down to Eastern Front levels rather than the other way round.

I wasn’t being sarcastic, your comment was helpful and developed the discussion as I had forgotten that the sniper was actually being buffed in this way, and no one else has raised this point on the thread. In my experience OST sniper is powerful against brits but unlike OST vs sov they do have some skill based counters early plus an LV which can scare the sniper off the field.

It’s possible the OST sniper is already too strong vs Brit. The garrison change is probably a move in the wrong direction in this case much as I understand the intention to reduce garrison power in the game