I strongly oppose the Soviet sniper change

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 10:48 AMLago

Which makes it more effective against UKF squads than it is against Soviet ones.

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 10:57 AMKatitof

So.... if its balanced against high number squads... would not that directly translate to being op vs low number squads....?

And one balanced against low number squads will underperform a bit vs high number squads...

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 10:27 AMLago

Which is why DPS isn't meaningful. What matters for snipers is how quickly they snipe models and the value of the models they're sniping.

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 13:28 PMElSlayer

Dude, of course by DPS I meant "how quickly they snipe models" (rate of fire). OBVIOUSLY.

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 13:48 PMLago

The post in question:

"3) Why more durable Conscripts must have lower DPS than less durable Grens, but Soviet Sniper with SAME durability (after proposed change) should STILL HAVE LOWER DPS that its Wehrmacht counterpart?"

The damage output of an infantry squad is affected by cover, range, accuracy, rate of fire, weapon damage and enemy received accuracy.

The damage output of a sniper is affected by how fast it can shoot.

Simplifying them both down to a single DPS value each doesn't make for meaningful comparisons.

I still don't understand why should Conscripts have lower DPS and MORE durability than their Wehrmacht counterpart and Sniper have lower DPS and SAME durablilty as its Wehrmacht counterpart.

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 14:43 PMLago

Because the Soviet sniper is generally shooting less numerous, more expensive models.

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 14:43 PMLago

Because the Soviet sniper is generally shooting less numerous, more expensive models than its Ostheer counterpart.

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 14:48 PMElSlayer

This argument already wasn't significant with introduction of
- USF (4-man team weapon crews, some 4-man squads, somewhat expensive 5-man mainline inf)
- OKW (5-man cheap mainline infantry, possible 6-man long-range doctrinal PFussies)

AND completely died with addition of UKF (4-man team weapon crews, 4-man mainline infantry almost as expensive as Grenadiers).

But that's not even point.
The question is - why Soviet Sniper should have same durability, if it fights against squads with much higher long range DPS?

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 14:56 PMNosliw

"High long range DPS" LUL

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 15:19 PMElSlayer

What's wrong with that statement?

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 15:22 PMNosliw

Even at point blank range, 2 grenadiers cannot kill a retreating soviet sniper. So saying that 1 grenadier at long range poses a threat is just ludicrous

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 15:34 PMElSlayer

In comparison to Cons long range DPS it is higher. That was my statement. LUL

I don't have exact stats to check it, but I believe it is higher at any range (assuming that both squads have all models).

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 14:55 PMKatitof

You are literally chasing your own tail at this point.... I don't know if you don't want to see ElSlayers point or are incapable of seeing it.

• Snipers are completely accurate and kill on every shot. This makes them independent of the accuracy, damage and received accuracy mechanisms that usually define the performance of squads against one another.
  
• Therefore the effectiveness of a sniper depends on the models it shoots. The fewer models in the enemy army the more of it a sniper kills per shot. The more expensive the reinforcement cost of the models it kills the more manpower bleed it inflicts.
  
• This means that any given sniper is inherently more valuable against an enemy composition with fewer, more expensive models in it than it is against a composition with lots of cheap models.
  
• If you want a sniper facing lots of cheap models to perform the same as a sniper facing more expensive models then you give the cheap model facing sniper a higher rate of fire.
  

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 15:22 PMNosliw

Even at point blank range, 2 grenadiers cannot kill a retreating soviet sniper. So saying that 1 grenadier at long range poses a threat is just ludicrous

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 15:48 PM#12345678

Grenadier, especially with LMG, can take down Soviet sniper quite quickly if they are both in weapon range. Experiences from a Soviet sniper user.

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 15:48 PM#12345678

Grenadier, especially with LMG, can take down Soviet sniper quite quickly IF THE SOVIET PLAYER IS ASLEEP AND THEREFORE CANNOT PUSH THE T KEY ON HIS KEYBOARD IN TIME, AND ALSO ASSUMING THAT HE DOESN'T SOFT RUN BACKWARDS AFTER EVERY SHOT, WHICH HE CAN SAFELY MAKE FROM OUTSIDE THE GRENADIER'S RANGE... if they are both in weapon range. Experiences from a Soviet sniper user.

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 15:47 PMzarok47

You wanna know why grenadiers have higher dps then their con brethern?

4 for 6 man

2 more rifle's AND 2 more bodies to drop. Math behind it translates into roughly 2.5 more dps required to be Equal.

As for dps on long range, it's a joke since grens are moving, mostly at 3 men or less and firing vs a cloaking target.

The only way to kill a sniper is with another sniper, and the 1 man change will not change that.

And if you want to go back to sov sniper utterly destroying ostheer, please make it fire as fast as ost sniper.

Jump back to quoted post25 Apr 2018, 15:52 PM#12345678

A OST player who try to kill Soviet sniper with his sniper, in most case, doesn't know how to play this game correctly.

You just want to drag us to the old COH1 sniper warfare by changing Soviet sniper to 1 man.