Spring Update - Balance thread

why in the hell will a ost mortar crew die when less than 2model....while the 120mm sov mortar which weights alot more and need much more arm power can survive with one model? never understod that.

why in the hell will a ost mortar crew die when less than 2model....while the 120mm sov mortar which weights alot more and need much more arm power can survive with one model? never understod that.

This was already answered in this thread. The 120mm mortar not decrewing at one man is a bug they can't fix. They've reduced the crew size to compensate.

are the balance team gonna fix the ST elevation bug and the boforos AA bug ?
how about checking the vet requiment of some units (for example su-76) ?
wouldn't be better to tie the OKW incendiary nades to the truck call in as it cost 100 MP and 15 FU (maybe mg34 and raketen too) ?
why was the AEC aim tread reverted ? too strong or cause it would switch targes to inf ?
IS tank hunter and UC might be overnerfed with the triple nerf, how about retaning the 5th man for BOIS and not decreasing the range for the WASP ?

Could you Elaborate on katy nerf but not changing werfer or stuka? Katy was nerfed because wipes, but the other two not while they wipe something with nearly every non max range Barrage makes no sense to me.

I'm not in favor of making everything useless. I think rocket artillery was in a good place. Don't nerf the katy, don't nerf any of others either.

why in the hell will a ost mortar crew die when less than 2model....while the 120mm sov mortar which weights alot more and need much more arm power can survive with one model? never understod that.

Ever wondered why wheels were invented?
They are made of Magic, they allow single person to move stuff that multiple people could not before.
Also quit whining already about everything and anything. 120 Needs 1 model to aim, reload and move because of wheeled cart, while other portable mortars require 2. That's it.

If you REALLY want to bitch about something, go bitch on the fact that PACK howi requires 3 People to operate and will be decrewed when 2 people are still there.

Could you Elaborate on katy nerf but not changing werfer or stuka? Katy was nerfed because wipes, but the other two not while they wipe something with nearly every non max range Barrage makes no sense to me.

becouse it can easily counter fire and kill the wefer while werfer do shit while firing at katiusha?

This for example gives more time to react

becouse it can easily counter fire and kill the wefer while werfer do shit while firing at katiusha?

This for example gives more time to react

I think you confused 2 Units.

You do realize that werfer will finish its Barrage and will be on way back to the rear lines before katy will finish first inaccurate salvo?

Ist Werfer which is able to counterbarrage katy, not the other way around and now its even easier since katy takes longer to deliver barrage.

becouse it can easily counter fire and kill the wefer while werfer do shit while firing at katiusha?

This for example gives more time to react

So in you logic we must nerf stuka, coz stuka can kill katya from barrage before katysha end 2 salvey OpieOP.

Could you Elaborate on katy nerf but not changing werfer or stuka? Katy was nerfed because wipes, but the other two not while they wipe something with nearly every non max range Barrage makes no sense to me.

Well, there is a pattern here with rocket artillery:

PW/Stuka: Small target area, only one short salvo, full damage to friendlies
Katy/LM/Cali: Large target area, large number of rockets stretched out over a longer period, basically no damage to friendlies.

So, seems like they are supposed to do different things. The allied pieces can be used to saturate an area while your own infantry can storm in, the axis ones are good at taking out specific team weapons, but not really for area denial.

Now, why all axis rocket artillery is one type while all allied artillery is of the other is beyond me. Might have to do with how the rest of the armies (were intended to) play out...

There are a lot of very good changes in this patch but there are also a plethora of changes that are unwarranted mininerfs to units that don't need it.

I don't believe the changes to these units are justified:

- SU-85
- ISU-152
- Katyusha
None of these units are particularly powerful right now so I don't see why they warrant nerfs. The Katyusha is the last rocket artillery unit I expected to see nerfed.

- Sturmtiger
- AVRE
The Sturmtiger in particular was nerfed into the floor in DBP. Why does it need to be nerfed further?

- Tank Hunter Infantry Section
- UKF Resupply Halftrack
The Tank Hunter changes are at odds with the UI: there's no reason for a player to expect a unit with the Infantry Section's icon and name not to behave like an Infantry Section. Wouldn't it make more sense to just bring its AT weapons in line with almost every other AT weapon in the game instead?

The changes to the Resupply Halftrack defeat the point of it: it's a riskier alternative to teching racks: it can go into the field to hand out weapons and reinforce squads but it risks being killed. This edit pretty much relegates the unit to teamgames where it can hand out weapons to teammates.

So the Tank Hunter change I don't entirely agree with but if it's between those changes or nothing i'd take the changes.

The Resupply Halftrack I had something to do with.

So you said it has a risk factor, I dont agree with you on that. In theory yes, it leaves base so it can die to AT but this unit is almost never killed in reality. The way you use forward reinforce in general means it's not prone to dying.

Brit's typically have good field presence as a game draws out especially in 1v1 (part of what makes them so good on bigger 1v1 maps) because they have active healing on their section, when you combine that with a mobile reinforce platform it makes it near impossible to push Brits off most maps unless you find away to be aggressive with mgs.

So on live you pay 15 fuel and 120mp more than do for the standard tech. So for 120mp and 15fuel that you get a mobile reinforcement point with an mg, you get 2 seats that can be fired from (i've abused this before in tournaments with piats) which is great with ai or at infantry. And you can drop weapons for your team mate which has way too much synergy with Soviets.

I agree that it being tied to tech is overkill to an extent, and it probably needs buffs to its capabilities as a unit or to it's cost as do most of the pure reinforce hts, now it sits in the mire with soviet M5 half track but still fills a niche in team games as you can drop weapons for your team mate which is hugely valuable for soviets, whereas M5 fills the role of SUs AA unit.

Well, there is a pattern here with rocket artillery:

PW/Stuka: Small target area, only one short salvo, full damage to friendlies
Katy/LM/Cali: Large target area, large number of rockets stretched out over a longer period, basically no damage to friendlies.

So, seems like they are supposed to do different things. The allied pieces can be used to saturate an area while your own infantry can storm in, the axis ones are good at taking out specific team weapons, but not really for area denial.

Now, why all axis rocket artillery is one type while all allied artillery is of the other is beyond me. Might have to do with how the rest of the armies (were intended to) play out...

I see your Point, however wipes are wipes. They remove the unit and its vet from the field the same way, regardless of which faction is a target.

Either all wipes are bad, which resulted in mortar, AVRE and ST changes, or none are.

Selectively nit picking one unit while others share the same problem does not seem to wise to me, especially since blunt generalization of all armies and their performance seems to be the flagship statement of couple of last patches, leaving out exceptions like this one make completely no sense to me.

And lastly, I have yet to see a singular Player at any skill or stat awareness level apply allied rocket arty in that way, it just does not work like that in game(as in is not used in such way since its against common sense).

That is why I wand Mr.Smith specifically to provide reasoning for what seems like completely random change.

Well, there is a pattern here with rocket artillery:

PW/Stuka: Small target area, only one short salvo, full damage to friendlies
Katy/LM/Cali: Large target area, large number of rockets stretched out over a longer period, basically no damage to friendlies.

So, seems like they are supposed to do different things. The allied pieces can be used to saturate an area while your own infantry can storm in, the axis ones are good at taking out specific team weapons, but not really for area denial.

Now, why all axis rocket artillery is one type while all allied artillery is of the other is beyond me. Might have to do with how the rest of the armies (were intended to) play out...

You are wrong, just look at reason why katysha get nerf, coz players can react.
Now go in cheat mode and test, what arty shoot faster from all this kinds.
Katysha are not most lethai arty from all 3 units taht are in tiers. Coz after first salvey you can retreut if you dont hear it. Now image when you dont hear PW or stuka barrage sound, you just must pray that you squads dont get wipe.

hmm? they just nerfed the cooldown of the katy? that 0.5 increase between salvos doesn't seem like a big nerf people are making out to be.

Panther armour 260? waaaaat

Thers also some "changes" that are not even changes, e.g arnt sturms already 8 pop cap in the live game?

though many great changes too

So the Tank Hunter change I don't entirely agree with but if it's between those changes or nothing i'd take the changes.

Wouldn't it make more sense to just make the Tank Hunter anti-tank rifles be ineffective against infantry? That'd deal with the versatility issue and would be consistent with every other anti-tank infantry squad in the game save for Guards.

I see your point on the halftrack.

Wouldn't it make more sense to just make the Tank Hunter anti-tank rifles be ineffective against infantry? That'd deal with the versatility issue and would be consistent with every other anti-tank infantry squad in the game save for Guards.

Guards are effective vs infantry, because if they weren't, the squad would be utter trash.

Call-in squad armed with AT weapon that does not perform well unless spammed and is completely useless vs heavy armor should be effective vs infantry.

Why would you get that squad otherwise instead of teching to PIATs and equipping REs with them, creating much more potent and scaling squad?

AV tommies should have their AT snare at same range as other snaring squads.

Guards are effective vs infantry, because if they weren't, the squad would be utter trash.

Call-in squad armed with AT weapon that does not perform well unless spammed and is completely useless vs heavy armor should be effective vs infantry.

Why would you get that squad otherwise instead of teching to PIATs and equipping REs with them, creating much more potent and scaling squad?

AV tommies should have their AT snare at same range as other snaring squads.

Because unlike double PIAT Royal Engineers they cost no munitions, they have a snare and they come out at a much earlier window. Personally I'd leave them be but if they have to change I'd rather see AI power shifted to AT than see them become yet another special case exception.

If they not an Infantry Section they shouldn't have the Infantry Section's name, icon and portrait. If they are an Infantry Section they should be affected by Bolster and be able to take the upgrades their icon leaves a big empty space for.

I'm surprised not more people are talking about the mortar changes regarding yellow cover. This is "YUGE". You know, like the 82HP change to snipers, now you won't randomly wipe when crossing craters through mid-late game (at least from mortars).

...

Is there any online site/spreadsheet available to check full stats atm? I wouldn't mind making a post so you can copy paste the new popcap changes for example, cause right now it's quite hard knowing from which value it has been changed.

1- Pack Howitzer range change doesn't seem right as AA has always been 80. If the barrage range has been reduced to 80, then good lord that's a nerf and probably putting the unit into the dumpsters and below old Suxton crap tier.

2- For soviet sniper change, i'll say go to the specific thread for a longer response but, has other changes been considered instead of making it a 1 man squad? Is it such an important thing to be able to counter snipe? With the heavy buff to counters and the rework to snipers, i fear it's either gonna be unusable or even worst, even stronger than now.

3- Any consideration on making flares reveal cloaked units ?

4- Is the PPSH a change to give some space for Shocktroops to work?

5- Su76: why not update vet requirements to Puma levels.
Why not give the barrage a minor cost such as 10-15muni so it's not FREE.

6- I'm not sure if 222 has been overbuffed or if it has been overbuffed ? Hull mg sniper change good. Cost decrease + armor increased... One or the other.

7- Slightly concerned as how UKF is gonna stand on 1v1 now.

There are some things that have not been applied or maybe they are a typographical failure:

currently PIV 14 and ST 8

OKW
Panzer IV: 14
Sturmpios: 8

currently is 9

SOV
sniper Popcap 8 to 9

Vickers???/PIATs

M3 Resupply HT
• Weapon drops (Vickers/PIATs) now require HQ research before deployment

Good catch, but yeah; PGren Bundle nades, Stun nades and Smoke nades now share a common cooldown for that.

So if i'm correct the kill aoe of the 120mm was higher in auto fire, so barraging with him was a bad idea will this change in the patch?

That Jackson change is pretty dope.

Gonna be super fun to have M36 play mitigated completely by Stugs )

Can't wait for my vet2 Tiger 21 pop Tigers to counter it's own (16 pop) counter.

apart from that... so many vehicles are getting pop cap updates... but not for the Calliope