The ISU-152 call-in is a beast and although it doesnt get brought up as much as su85s on the forums, I'm tempted to say its a bit too strong and I would like to start a discussion on it.
In a nutshell the tank has the range of a tank destroyer, shells that can gib german squads in one hit or otherwise force a new squad to retreat every shot, wrecks ostheer tanks/vehicles, is accurate, and has heavy armor to boot.
I think a good case in point was the last round of the TFN langreskaya tourney where the german player had full map control, magic isu-152 comes out and his entire army is wrecked in about 2 mins by a single vehicle. I don't like the idea that someone who has outplayed another during the match gets completely overturned by a single tank. Its somewhat the nature of the heavy call-in design in coh2, but Tigers, elefants, is2s all require more combined arms to work... the isu152 just destroys anything it looks at.
What do you guys think of the isu152's current balance and role in the game at this time?
ISU-152 in 1v1: Thoughts?
18 Aug 2013, 15:56 PM
#1
![avatar of =][=mmortal](/uploads/avatar/6497.jpg?updated=1372535109)
Posts: 215
18 Aug 2013, 16:07 PM
#2
Posts: 431
I wouldn't call it "too strong" because it is very expensive and its armour is pretty weak.
They should make it cheaper (just a bit). However, its a beast from distance.
They should make it cheaper (just a bit). However, its a beast from distance.
18 Aug 2013, 16:46 PM
#3
Posts: 598
at least one panther can short that out, if you made a perfect sneak attack, all your rounds will penetrate the isu152, and the isu152 has a slow reload time. that thing was a beast in real life, it might as well be a beast in the game as well.
18 Aug 2013, 17:10 PM
#4
Posts: 215
at least one panther can short that out, if you made a perfect sneak attack, all your rounds will penetrate the isu152, and the isu152 has a slow reload time. that thing was a beast in real life, it might as well be a beast in the game as well.
how often do germans go t4 in a 1v1?
about perfect sneak attacks... it will keep its distance. you cant balance on perfect case what-ifs anyway. and besides we all know we dont balance units in game off of whether we like them IRL
18 Aug 2013, 17:17 PM
#5
Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6
If german don't have Elefant, Panthers, Tigers, Pak43 then he's screwed, and when we know that nearly all german players rush P4 spam, then ISU-152 is epic choice
18 Aug 2013, 17:26 PM
#6
Posts: 598
how often do germans go t4 in a 1v1?
about perfect sneak attacks... it will keep its distance. you cant balance on perfect case what-ifs anyway. and besides we all know we dont balance units in game off of whether we like them IRL
i sometimes go t4, even though that usually means a pretty risky infantry stand against the enemy. i understand in maps like prypiat sneaking is difficult but other maps like moscow outskirts, you can seize the opportunity by bypassing enemy defenses and straight into the main target(they made the isu152 armor wear for a reason). even a panzer IV can get the job then. it is difficult yes, but isu152s are very expensive so it may pay off.
i know we should not balance games based on whether we like them in real life, but i want them to be close to their real life counterparts as much as possible. if some things have to change because of balance then that's alright. i'm ok with isu152s having low armor even though the isu152 has heavy armor in real life, because of balance reasons.
18 Aug 2013, 17:32 PM
#7
Posts: 28
how often do germans go t4 in a 1v1?
How often do you see an isu 152 in a 1v1.
18 Aug 2013, 17:38 PM
#8
Posts: 420
If german don't have Elefant, Panthers, Tigers, Pak43 then he's screwed, and when we know that nearly all german players rush P4 spam, then ISU-152 is epic choice
I doubt that you'll have enough fuel to get the isu152 fast enough to deal with a p4 rush/spam. Which forces you to spend fuel on other vehicles to get the job done. I haven't been albe to call in a isu152 in a 2v2 or 1v1, that wasn't already won by then.
I will simply lol at anyone expecting such a change to a 2 year old general use infantry.
Equally possible are pershing for USF, IS-3 for soviets or ober nerf for OKW.
18 Aug 2013, 17:50 PM
#9
Posts: 480
It's *really* pricey and requires a big sacrifice, so I'm OK with the power level. The Tiger and IS-2 need a bit of a buff to catch up with it rather than vice versa.
18 Aug 2013, 18:33 PM
#10
Posts: 954
The soviet player manage to save up to 680MP/290fuel in a 1v1 match, what were you doing ?
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
18 Aug 2013, 19:24 PM
#11
Posts: 978
Problem is not the ISU-152, it´s the Su85 which totally negates the hard-counter to the ISU (Panther). If the Panther wouldn´t be outperformed by SU-85 it could fight versus the ISU.
18 Aug 2013, 20:30 PM
#12
Posts: 51
^ this. While not a hard counter, Tiger should be able to get the job done too, but SU85 stomps them much too effectively as well.
19 Aug 2013, 01:01 AM
#13
Posts: 215
yeah I think you guys are probably right, tweak su85 and buff tiger/is2
19 Aug 2013, 04:31 AM
#14
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedThink we'll have to wait and see what armor changes are in the patch before ISU can really be considered.
If SU85 takes a nerf, and t34 a buff, for example, this units place in the meta will shift unpredictably. Overall, I think it will need an eventual nerf, since its raw dps stats are pretty awesome, but Id leave adjustment of it till next patch.
As with the SU85, my preferred avenue would be speed and range reduction.
I feel overall that Ost armor hunting needs a speed advantage, whereas Im ok with Sov Assault gun types having significant DPS from static positions.
If SU85 takes a nerf, and t34 a buff, for example, this units place in the meta will shift unpredictably. Overall, I think it will need an eventual nerf, since its raw dps stats are pretty awesome, but Id leave adjustment of it till next patch.
As with the SU85, my preferred avenue would be speed and range reduction.
I feel overall that Ost armor hunting needs a speed advantage, whereas Im ok with Sov Assault gun types having significant DPS from static positions.
19 Aug 2013, 22:33 PM
#15
Posts: 194
I fail to see how high cost justifies its tendency to insta-gib all infantry / support at colossal range. I for one would hate to see Tiger and IS2 brought up to that level because frankly, it's just poor design. Why not just make a unit that costs 1000 MP and 400 fuel and when you click the button the game ends in victory? (Not saying this is case with ISU152, just that high cost doesn't justify stupid power).
There was not a single unit in vCoH that could insta gib squads except -maybe- the tiger firing on a nearly dead bunched up squad, and even then it had to be reasonably close to fire.
Losing the thing is impossible unless you're dicking around or just really bad and have left it unsupported for a 3 mile radius. Oh, panther is making a break for it? lol button, mark vehicle, next?
To end on a fairly unhelpful note, the entire soviet army just needs to be rethought almost from the ground up. Not fun, not interesting / varied, not balanced. This thread is just another in that line.
There was not a single unit in vCoH that could insta gib squads except -maybe- the tiger firing on a nearly dead bunched up squad, and even then it had to be reasonably close to fire.
Losing the thing is impossible unless you're dicking around or just really bad and have left it unsupported for a 3 mile radius. Oh, panther is making a break for it? lol button, mark vehicle, next?
To end on a fairly unhelpful note, the entire soviet army just needs to be rethought almost from the ground up. Not fun, not interesting / varied, not balanced. This thread is just another in that line.
19 Aug 2013, 22:44 PM
#16
Posts: 337
I personally prefer the vehicle balance in vCOH. The problem with the SU85, ISU, and Elephant is that they have ridiculous range, and so can just sit way back and snipe all day. Range allows them to be relatively untouchable.
If Su85s were brought down to 50 range and Elephant/ISU brought down to 60 range(possibly with a reduction in price as well), it would make the game a lot more interesting.
If Su85s were brought down to 50 range and Elephant/ISU brought down to 60 range(possibly with a reduction in price as well), it would make the game a lot more interesting.
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19 Aug 2013, 23:19 PM
#17
Posts: 954
I personally prefer the vehicle balance in vCOH. The problem with the SU85, ISU, and Elephant is that they have ridiculous range, and so can just sit way back and snipe all day. Range allows them to be relatively untouchable.
If Su85s were brought down to 50 range and Elephant/ISU brought down to 60 range(possibly with a reduction in price as well), it would make the game a lot more interesting.
this, super range + scope or vet sight combo is pure lame, vCOH handles vehicle meta much better, I want to see T-34/76 act like a big Cromwell not a expensive battering ram....
I love the wolf pact Cromwell fell like, and I enjoy it so much~
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
21 Aug 2013, 00:04 AM
#18
Posts: 215
the range issue is probably the main problem with the ISU, more than the dps. If it had to get up close to wreck anything in its way, it would be balanced by the fact its vulnerable while attacking. As it stands now its a souped up su85 with anti-infantry capabilities
21 Aug 2013, 02:32 AM
#19
Posts: 44
I think it's fine. It really varies on the map. When flankable, it dies very easily to any blitz'ing tank. But some maps, like Pripyat or Rhzev, don't really allow flanking, making it a beast.
21 Aug 2013, 22:34 PM
#20
Posts: 101
How many games does someone field this in a 1v1? I think I've done it like 3 times, but in each of those, I would have easily won without it.
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