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Agreed, for 60 munis that is pretty sad. |
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Cheers, will give the Stug a run next time I see a KV8. P4 doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent, and T4 just isn't practical in most 1v1s. |
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I haven't tried stug vs KV8, it has better reload time than a P4 but does it also have better penetration? P4 is definitely faster, but as you say we shouldn't look at units in a vacuum, and if KV8 has any support its unlikely you'll be able to circle it. Most of the time a P4 would trade shots with the KV8 frontally and it seems to deflect an awful lot. Which as I said is fine if it wasn't instagibbing infantry. I wasn't comparing it to P4 btw (which is pretty balanced now as a generalist tank), more just saying how P4 isn't really a counter to it. You meed Panther or Tiger or Elefant to have a real shot of taking it down. If you're looking at a role comparison of a hard AI and light AT, compare it to say an ostwind - which granted has great AA but thats rarely useful in 1v1 - and you can see what I mean.... Yeah its 40/20 more, but doesn't require teching. Ostwind can't ignore AT guns and AT grenades, infantry can get away easily, the KV8 is worlds in front. |
Should I point out that a StuG is more likely to penetrate a KV8 than a t34 is to penetrate a PIV?.
It doesn't lose "slightly" against a PIV, even if you just duke it out sitting next to each other shooting (rather than, you know, circling around the much slower kv8) the PIV will still have half health left by the time it finishes with the KV8. And the PIV is a much cheaper, faster and versatile unit.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The KV8 is, in a vacuum, an overpowered unit (almost purely because of retarded flame mechanics, which also affect other units like the flameht. Just those units are relatively soft compared to KV8). It's stuck in two relatively bad commander trees and is a slow pure anti-infantry vehicle for the faction that is far more reliant on fuel for antitank of the two. I see more games lost because the soviets make an KV8 when what they really need is an AT unit, than I see won by one showing up.
How is the Stug v KV8 or T34 v P4 relevant?
Ok maybe I was exaggerating saying it 'bounces pretty much every shot' but its frontal armor does bounce a lot of P4 shots. And the P4 isn't 'way faster' or 'way cheaper'. The KV8 is extremely durable, which wouldn't be a problem if it didn't evaporate infantry even if they retreat immediately. |
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It kils infantry 3x faster than ostwind, bounces pretty much every german AT shot until panthers or heavy call-ins and can duke it out with a P4 when it switches guns (will lose slightly). And given it requires no teching its roughly cost equivalent to P4/ostwind. I think if flame dmg on retreat is changed, it'll help but its just too good for cost. The only reason it isn't in the nerf spotlight is because its rarely used due to guards being almost essential to take down FHT and scout car, and guards/KV8 are of course mutually exclusive. |
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Agree with most in saying PGs are fine but Penals need a buff of some sort |
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T3 is viable now, and works very well esp vs the german heavy infantry builds, but T4 is still more viable because SU85 is still a touch too strong and kats/su-76 can deal with infantry. |
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It's better since the patch, but should maybe cost a little more, maybe somewhere in between P4 and Panther. I'd still much rather have an SU85 than a P4, and they cost the same. |
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Soviets won every tournament pretty comfortably before patch.... Now it's more balanced. Not saying MG42 isn't a bit too strong, but then so is SU-85 (even with the change). Clown cars and snipers are still viable, just have to be more careful and protect em with guards. Sov T2 still sucky though, agree on that, but so is german T4. |
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I think soviet sniper is balanced for cost, german should be a bit cheaper because of its drawbacks (and mg42 more expensive if they don't nerf it, but I think they will). |
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