Mark Target OP
18 Aug 2013, 19:09 PM
#21
Posts: 46
Hah. Sometimes you just have to laugh at the jive people come up with. Mark Target is fine. I'd love to see the game that made the OP rage post.
19 Aug 2013, 00:08 AM
#22
Posts: 589
and don't forget non inf non armor units like the zis and the 120mm mortar!
19 Aug 2013, 00:57 AM
#23
Posts: 245
I'm sure you are right, Mr. Lincoln, about it being a particular game that the OP has raged about.
I think that there should be a minimum half-hour time period before someone is allowed to post balance concerns following playing the game. The cooling-off and considering what actually happened period would help the forums immensely.
I think that there should be a minimum half-hour time period before someone is allowed to post balance concerns following playing the game. The cooling-off and considering what actually happened period would help the forums immensely.
19 Aug 2013, 04:05 AM
#24
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedIm just jealous Grens no longer have Mark Target 
Could maybe lose the Air Tracking part, I think, to make it more of a front loaded ability that relies on conventional spotting to pull off.
50% dmg is pretty serious and enough for 80 Munis. The tracking part is "cool', but sort of jams too much into one ability.
Could maybe lose the Air Tracking part, I think, to make it more of a front loaded ability that relies on conventional spotting to pull off.
50% dmg is pretty serious and enough for 80 Munis. The tracking part is "cool', but sort of jams too much into one ability.
19 Aug 2013, 06:18 AM
#25
Posts: 79
Mark Target is by far my favourite ability. It is the only thing that makes (imo) t3 Soviets viable. And that makes the game far more entertaining. The ability is definitely not an automatic kill though.
As far as the LOS goes. It is terrible. It is often barely able to maintain visibility on the target itself, let alone anything else.
As far as the LOS goes. It is terrible. It is often barely able to maintain visibility on the target itself, let alone anything else.
19 Aug 2013, 06:28 AM
#26
Posts: 2425
Permanently Banned
As far as the LOS goes. It is terrible. It is often barely able to maintain visibility on the target itself, let alone anything else.
How can you even say this, when it has a fucking airplane dedicated to locating the Marked Vehicle?
19 Aug 2013, 07:39 AM
#27
Posts: 79
How can you even say this, when it has a fucking airplane dedicated to locating the Marked Vehicle?
It has a plane. Its just not very good at its job.
19 Aug 2013, 09:34 AM
#28
Posts: 255
I agree with you lokust the ability really -really- helps T3, the airplane is just meh really does feel tacked on and i would not be sorry to see it go as with t3 you tend to have fast agile tanks to keep up with your intended target /ram + oooorah so extra los just isnt needed imo
19 Aug 2013, 09:36 AM
#29
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedGood. We are in agreement then. The airplane recon element can be removed.
19 Aug 2013, 10:56 AM
#30
Posts: 644
Eh, having Mark Target around radically increases the viability of all things which aren't SU-85s, which is a good thing.
+1!
5 OP OH tanks in front of your base
blow one up, slap it around
7 OP OH tanks in front of your base
blow one up, slap it around
7 OP OH tanks in front of your base
19 Aug 2013, 12:38 PM
#31
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedSure, its a good thing. Especially for a doctrine that doesnt have Guard.
But 50% from all AT sources is pretty hefty. Not to mention the airborne tracking, for only 80 munis. Compare this to Shreks for example which cost 120 Munis, have quite poor AT, and reduce the squads AI dramatically.
Mark Vehicle is, at best, a sure kill on enemy vehicle, at worst, you can force it off and track it. For 80 munis, thats very significant. Furthermore, asymmetrically, this ability has no equivalent on Ost nor do Ost have any vehicle repair doctrinal abilities.
TLDR: A player using this doctrine can leverage AI from Shocks and KV8s against Mark Vehicles 50%+tracking. Its a very potent combination, and imo, too much so.
But 50% from all AT sources is pretty hefty. Not to mention the airborne tracking, for only 80 munis. Compare this to Shreks for example which cost 120 Munis, have quite poor AT, and reduce the squads AI dramatically.
Mark Vehicle is, at best, a sure kill on enemy vehicle, at worst, you can force it off and track it. For 80 munis, thats very significant. Furthermore, asymmetrically, this ability has no equivalent on Ost nor do Ost have any vehicle repair doctrinal abilities.
TLDR: A player using this doctrine can leverage AI from Shocks and KV8s against Mark Vehicles 50%+tracking. Its a very potent combination, and imo, too much so.
19 Aug 2013, 13:33 PM
#32
2 
Posts: 2181
Sure, its a good thing. Especially for a doctrine that doesnt have Guard.
But 50% from all AT sources is pretty hefty. Not to mention the airborne tracking, for only 80 munis. Compare this to Shreks for example which cost 120 Munis, have quite poor AT, and reduce the squads AI dramatically.
Mark Vehicle is, at best, a sure kill on enemy vehicle, at worst, you can force it off and track it. For 80 munis, thats very significant. Furthermore, asymmetrically, this ability has no equivalent on Ost nor do Ost have any vehicle repair doctrinal abilities.
TLDR: A player using this doctrine can leverage AI from Shocks and KV8s against Mark Vehicles 50%+tracking. Its a very potent combination, and imo, too much so.
What are you talking about?
Mark target comes with 2 commanders, both of which have guards and no shocks or kv8's
19 Aug 2013, 13:55 PM
#33
Posts: 331
Hah. Sometimes you just have to laugh at the jive people come up with. Mark Target is fine. I'd love to see the game that made the OP rage post.
Its not one game, its just a bad ability IMO. In reality its basically a tank insta kill ability.. Its take no skill to use, its super powerful and its spammable.. seems op to me
19 Aug 2013, 14:18 PM
#34
Posts: 229
In my experience, Mark Target is not an insta kill on German armor and is very important if you're trying to use T3 units instead of SU85. As someone mentioned above, perhaps the SU is the real issue, and not Mark Target.
19 Aug 2013, 14:59 PM
#35
Posts: 604
I think it would probably be a better ability if it did just increase penetration (multiplication) or decreased the vehicle's armor (doesn't really matter which one for the calculation).
This would make it stronger (or keep it as strong) with units like the T-34s, Su-76, Guards' PTRS (they already have higher penetration than the T-34 O.o) and even increase the viability of other, sometimes overlooked soft counters like the T-70 (flank) that normally has a quite low chance to penetrate.
High penetration units like the Su-85 and AT guns wouldn't profit at all from it then, though.
Its current form can be perceived as problematic because it is a huge force multiplier for already strong units and does not do as much for low penetration units although its cost and commander placement (3 CP -> mid-game, commanders dedicated to counter vehicles) suggests that it should be used with early/mid-game units (NOT Su-85). Long range units (AT gun, Su-76) would still profit from the detection/tracking it grants).
This would make it stronger (or keep it as strong) with units like the T-34s, Su-76, Guards' PTRS (they already have higher penetration than the T-34 O.o) and even increase the viability of other, sometimes overlooked soft counters like the T-70 (flank) that normally has a quite low chance to penetrate.
High penetration units like the Su-85 and AT guns wouldn't profit at all from it then, though.
Its current form can be perceived as problematic because it is a huge force multiplier for already strong units and does not do as much for low penetration units although its cost and commander placement (3 CP -> mid-game, commanders dedicated to counter vehicles) suggests that it should be used with early/mid-game units (NOT Su-85). Long range units (AT gun, Su-76) would still profit from the detection/tracking it grants).
19 Aug 2013, 15:29 PM
#36
Posts: 2425
Permanently Banned@Sarantini: Touche. My bad. Got them confused.
23 Nov 2013, 23:20 PM
#37
Posts: 307
You can't use mark the target on multiple tanks. So when Germans attack in large blobs (and they very often do so) all these su85 guards and ZiS will have no chance.
I've seen such large attacks so many times, 3-4 panthers and 3 panzergrenadiers with shreks - with button and mark the target you may only damage or kill (if lucky enough) 1 panther before you lose all of your SU's and ZiS and everything else.
Germans have capabilities of creating large blobs of tanks and infantry and just sweep the floor with them. Russians don't unless you want to troll your opponent with like 10 T-70. I've never seen 5 IS-2 attacking Germans.
I've seen such large attacks so many times, 3-4 panthers and 3 panzergrenadiers with shreks - with button and mark the target you may only damage or kill (if lucky enough) 1 panther before you lose all of your SU's and ZiS and everything else.
Germans have capabilities of creating large blobs of tanks and infantry and just sweep the floor with them. Russians don't unless you want to troll your opponent with like 10 T-70. I've never seen 5 IS-2 attacking Germans.
Vae Victis!
23 Nov 2013, 23:39 PM
#38
Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21
Mark Target isn't OP.
23 Nov 2013, 23:49 PM
#39
Posts: 3293
You can't use mark the target on multiple tanks. So when Germans attack in large blobs (and they very often do so) all these su85 guards and ZiS will have no chance.
I've seen such large attacks so many times, 3-4 panthers and 3 panzergrenadiers with shreks - with button and mark the target you may only damage or kill (if lucky enough) 1 panther before you lose all of your SU's and ZiS and everything else.
Germans have capabilities of creating large blobs of tanks and infantry and just sweep the floor with them. Russians don't unless you want to troll your opponent with like 10 T-70. I've never seen 5 IS-2 attacking Germans.
soviet industry plus marked target sounds like a pain in the ass. that said i do not think mark target is OP if anything it enchourages teamwork as well as using more than just heavy tanks. (conbined arms.)
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24 Nov 2013, 01:00 AM
#40
Posts: 971
Mark Target isn't OP at all. And the german player always can see which tank is marked, so just retreat it from the engage.
The ability is doctrinal, requires combined arms and is the only way to make soviet T2-T3 viable.
The ability is doctrinal, requires combined arms and is the only way to make soviet T2-T3 viable.
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