Penetration system

I decided to look up exact penetration values and armor values and got a bit confused:
if armor value is above the penetration value, some kind of probability applies? Because I am sure I saw shots penetrate where they should not have and I don't think veterancy bonuses change much.

What if penetration value and armor are the same? Panther has 240 pen and Churchill has 240 frontal armor, for example

Where does one look up this penetration probability then? stats.coh2.hu doesn't seem to have such info

Chance to penetrate = penetration of weapon/armor of target

For more here

https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/231279/a-guide-to-d-p-s-basics

Chance to penetrate = penetration of weapon/armor of target

For more here

https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/231279/a-guide-to-d-p-s-basics

Thank you very much!

I decided to look up exact penetration values and armor values and got a bit confused:
if armor value is above the penetration value, some kind of probability applies? Because I am sure I saw shots penetrate where they should not have and I don't think veterancy bonuses change much.

What if penetration value and armor are the same? Panther has 240 pen and Churchill has 240 frontal armor, for example

Where does one look up this penetration probability then? stats.coh2.hu doesn't seem to have such info

Here's also a very good, well written and clear thread from a very well respected user about other game mechanics which you might find interesting:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/36347/cruzz-s-the-more-you-know

However, some values indicated in thread might be a bit off due to recent balance changes.

Additionally the Guides section on this page is most comprehensive:
https://www.coh2.org/guides/categories

Here's also a very good, well written and clear thread from a very well respected user about other game mechanics which you might find interesting:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/36347/cruzz-s-the-more-you-know

However, some values indicated in thread might be a bit off due to recent balance changes.

Additionally the Guides section on this page is most comprehensive:
https://www.coh2.org/guides/categories

Thanks! Although I looked into that thread beforehand and found only 'penetration chance are capped at 1' but the exact relation of armor and penetration remained unclear.

Thanks! Although I looked into that thread beforehand and found only 'penetration chance are capped at 1' but the exact relation of armor and penetration remained unclear.

I often use this file to find the values:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view
(download it on your computer, then open it, otherwise it won't show up correctly)
Note: I am uncertain if all the values in the file still applies, due to recent balance changes, but for a quick overview without needing the mod tools, this is a fantastic source.

Generally, the rule of thumb is:
Chance to penetrate in percentage = (penetration values of weapon / armor values of target) *100.0f
e.g. (some weapon with 120 penetration / some tank with 290 armor)*100 = 41% chance to penetrate and inflict damage.

The values are capped at 1, this means, in layman's terms, that the values are capped at 100% chance to penetrate. Some users prefer to use percentage to talk about penetration values, some others don't. Large parts of the game-engine works with float values between 0-1 (so 41% penetration is equivalent to 0.41). It's all about rolling dices at this point; even with only 41% chance to penetrate, you may get lucky and have all shots in a row penetrating and damaging a target - or the complete opposite if you're unlucky.

Keep in mind that tanks are merely divided into front/back armor and that side hits may either count as front hit or back hit, depending on where exactly the shell hits.

A little detail as well: small values (3%?) are ignored. So you won't have some small arm fire penetrating different armor values.

There are weapons which also have deflection damage and some can deal dmg to units through AoE rather than hitting and penetrating them.

Has anyone mentioned the "random" way Relic tends to choose the worst case scenario for things as well. And that no matter what you due to avoid them, you can not.

1. An example would be the way a plane always lands on your HQ or army.
2. A recently killed vehicle will drive 50 meters to blowup on the mines you planted earlier.
3. Artillery/barrages that should be randomly scattered, land directly on your shit every time.
4. Your MG will not suppress a unit that is headed to grenade the building it is in. Even though they are crossing RED cover. As soon as the grenade is tossed, they get suppressed.

vCOH was notoriously bad for this. Red smoke appears. You run away. You die anyway even though you are 300 meters from the smoke.

I always pointed at the networking code for this issue. The dice rolls way before the event. And then it just shows you what it "decided" would happen. Even though you out played it and escaped. In vCoh the decisions were made like 10 - 15 seconds before the event. COH2 it seems to be a smaller number, but the horrible code still exists. And it needs to be fixed.

Keep in mind that tanks are merely divided into front/back armor and that side hits may either count as front hit or back hit, depending on where exactly the shell hits.

Is there a more detail on how side armor hit registers either as front or rear? Random black box? 50/50?

Is there a more detail on how side armor hit registers either as front or rear? Random black box? 50/50?

Each vehicles has a hit box so it depends weather the shot collides with front of the vehicle or back.

AOE penetration probably works similarly.

Is there a more detail on how side armor hit registers either as front or rear? Random black box? 50/50?

It is indeed 50/50, one large hitbox made out of two hitboxes, here's a drawing to help you to better understand the front/rear armor.



A vehicle's side armour is split into one "front" part and one "rear" part; by using the attack ground command when attacking enemy tanks and aiming at the rear part of the side armour, you will score a rear armour hit with a higher chance of penetrating.

Source: https://www.coh2.org/guides/31462/tips-and-tricks-for-newbies

However, I am uncertain if the size of the rear/front hitbox differs in distribution with larger units (e.g elephant with 75/25 front/armor), but I always go clearly for the bits that are visually the back than attacking from the sides.

It is indeed 50/50, one large hitbox made out of two hitboxes, here's a drawing to help you to better understand the front/rear armor.



A vehicle's side armour is split into one "front" part and one "rear" part; by using the attack ground command when attacking enemy tanks and aiming at the rear part of the side armour, you will score a rear armour hit with a higher chance of penetrating.

Source: https://www.coh2.org/guides/31462/tips-and-tricks-for-newbies

However, I am uncertain if the size of the rear/front hitbox differs in distribution with larger units (e.g elephant with 75/25 front/armor), but I always go clearly for the bits that are visually the back than attacking from the sides.

Thank you very much!

On a unrelated note: someone remembers the test done to check how the accuracy model worked ?

At which angle is the vehicle gonna hit either the front or rear if they were to land a accuracy shot instead of scatter one ?
Also: didn't some heavy vehicles had a different hitbox ratio ?

I thought most vehicles used a front/rear armor ratio of 2:1. So the first 2/3s of the tank would be the front and the last 1/3 would be the rear. Fairly certain that the KT isn't split 50/50 though.

...
At which angle is the vehicle gonna hit either the front or rear if they were to land a accuracy shot instead of scatter one ?
...

I am under the impression without being sure that "natural" hit shots have a small random angle scatter added so if it on the side it can either hit front or rear.

I thought most vehicles used a front/rear armor ratio of 2:1. So the first 2/3s of the tank would be the front and the last 1/3 would be the rear. Fairly certain that the KT isn't split 50/50 though.

As far as I am aware, only ele got different ratio then 50:50.