CoH 2 and Psychology - An Adventure

I don't know where exactly to post this, so I"ll just post it here. If this is supposed to be elsewhere then I apologise.

I will also preface this post by saying that this is a serious post.

=Introduction=

I started playing this game during the time USF and OKW were still relatively new to the game. I found the game quite fun and decided to stick around to see how it will develop along the way. This was also when the game's official modding tools (@ Company of Heroes 2 Modding Tools) was still new.



=Adventuring Into Modding=

While installing CoH2ModTools, I was reflecting on why I really like this game so much to try out modding it.

I loved the game's overall mechanics. On how the style of Units in this RTS game is distinctive and gives the game a personality separate from other RTS games. I saw a lot of potential to explore lots of design options.

My first few days of learning and testing had never been worse. In it's current state (still is), is a highly incomplete software that only provides you with the basic functions to modify. Yet, I saw a lot of potential in this. I spent days just doing nothing but modifying the units into ridiculous kinds. I had a blast.

I decided to commit more time to this.



=Roadblock Ahead=

I didn't know what I want to make. But I wanted to make something anyway.

I made my first mod from my test file. It was meant to be silly and not to be taken seriously. I spent a considerable amount of time on it and was really excited to play it publicly.

Of course, multiplayer being multiplayer, you cannot pre-prepare for anything. Nobody took it as a "silly joke" as everyone thought it was meant to be a "serious mod" There isn't a long version to this story. This was all just one big misunderstanding.

I struggled to think on how to better handle people during these public playthroughs. But it didn't end there...



=Trying To Make Something Serious, (comma) =

I did experimental mods for the rest of the time. And occasionally I would play them publicly to get feedback. But the mods aren't the focus of the spotlight today. No it never has. The spotlight goes to my experiences with all these.., feedbacks. If I could even call them feedbacks.

To be more detailed in my explanation, I will first disclaimer that I'm okay with criticism. You can say that my mod is bad, its horrible, and I will be fine. I can't control what people say or think. Most of the time people don't even give a reason (constructive feedback) as to why they don't like the mod. They will just say its bad and leave the game.

"I'm professional and I'll take feedback as they are. But must I succumb myself to just numbly be slapped about with unhelpful feedback?" - Till now, is the question I keep asking myself. But this has never been the worst part...


==, but My Livelihood Keeps Getting Threatened ==


There will be different stage in life for everyone where they'll face absolutely absurd treatment, whether it be in the real world or internet. I've had my share, but from the scorching heats of the Coh2 Community brought along endless, scorching insults.

I can still remember some of them clearly as if it was yesterday.

"fk u and ur stupid mod i hope you go fkking die"

"are you autistic?" "what makes you think this is a good idea"

"whoever made this is dumb"

"go kill your own mom" "stupid pudding mod"

"GG bye i hope you burn in hell for making this stupid piece of pudding"

"I doubt anyone in this community would even like this mod"

But, I find it really interesting at the same time, in terms of psychology, what makes these people be so vehemently hostile towards something they have only spent 5 minutes on? Better yet, that none of us know each other. At what cost does it make them to spew hatred from the guts of their scorched-filled bellies, to fling verbal weaponry at their targets, without so much as a thought to why they are doing it?

Then again, I keep telling myself "I am professional, just keep quiet and don't say anything. Or if I have to, just respond nicely and if they keep insulting you, then just let it be..", which is a mantra that has gotten me through all of these situations. But each scorching words of fire and steel hurled at me weakens my resolve, my fortitude, as I feel less and less compelled to continue working on my mod each day, as if my mental wall has been slowly chipped away. An increasingly ruptured and broken wall, with no hope of repair.

But then I grab an Oreo pack, eat it up, and feel much better.

Back To Work,

The cycle repeats...


= In Analysis, On Winning/Losing On Purpose =

What's even more interesting is that I can influence the way people give reception to my mod.


After countless of public playtesting, I realised that most of the angry people are the ones who lost the matches. But, to really solidify this claim, I had to put it to the test.

There's nothing special about this test. It's basically me losing on purpose. Enemy team losing? Nope having none of that (proceeds to blow up my allies). Now the enemy is winning, WOOHOO! Take this and multiply by X (X being the number of matches) with a few afks here and there. From these results, I've gotten even more negative (and very scorching hateful) comments about my mod, but it's mostly from the players who suffered Defeat.

"the balance in this mod is rly bad" - a player who lost all of his units in the first 5 minutes because he left them in the open while the other enemy player was using anti-infantry weapons on his units for about 2 - 3 minutes straight.

"Have you tried using cover?" - My reply

"what?" - his reply

The surprising few who aren't part of the equation, however, are some of the nicest people I've ever met, and I'm glad to have met them. These are the people who will give Constructive Criticism, whether it be positive or negative. These are the people you must value.



= It's Only Game, Why You Heff To Be Mad? =


Really.., it's only a game, why you have to be mad?


In my opinion.., I really don't know. I have played lots of Competitive Games. I've played with really outstanding players who knows the game in the back of their hands, and I've also played with some of the most braindead people ever considered ever. If only to be straightforward, I understand.

But, must a person insult another's livelihood?

Frankly, I don't understand.


= Verdict =


None. I still don't understand these people and quite frankly, I may never do. It is still an interesting thing to figure out, however much I will never understand. You might be wondering, however, on why am I even posting this.

I don't know. I just felt like sharing.

But please, no scorching weapons of verbal intensity. I am only human after all, I can only take so much.

Interestingly, Riot games is constantly working towards a solution of this problem, as it is most common in their popular title League Of Legends. There are countless unwritten user-generated rules that are common for online titles that may be perceived as socially inapt by new players (e.g. insulting). If you're interested, i'd have a peek on google scholar for some academic research into the subject; there's countless things!

https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=league+of+legends+trolling&btnG=

It is really interesting. I've come to the conclusion that most players
do NOT want balance. They want their pet faction buffed and the enemy faction nerfed. Too many games and movies of rambo attest to this.

People play most often to relax, or soothe their inner bunny.
Or their inner Rambo.

- The Wehraboo fanboi who thinks SS are elite and should always win.
- The American Patriot who thinks every war should be instant US win.
- The Soviet fanboi who reacts to nazi fanboism and howls that 83%
of German combat losses were caused by Soviets, and should be reflected
in the game (Also that they didn't do human wave attacks) and that the
Leningrad debacle (1 rifle per 2 man) was not the norm, and simply
hollywoodian insanity.
- Japanese lovers who think Japanese ought to be included in Normandy.
(And be given experimental or imaginary tanks to balance the Japanese)
(Can of worms, then everyone starts requesting same : MAUS, IS-3, Super Pershing, Patton)
- Finnish lovers who think Finns ought to be included in Normandy.
- British who think everyone else is insane.

You - CAN'T - satisfy everybody.

Blizzard came to the conclusion that balance cannot be achieved
because of perception, and playing style, unless you implement mirror
stat ... which honestly, no one wants.

Solution? Game is balanced when everyone complains equally There.

Which is your mod? Give me an idea of what it tries to achieve, and
I'll tell you what I think in a constructive way if I may

I've played WAY MORE games than most people here
I began playing ASL (Squad Leader)(BoardGame) around 1981.

I posted this earlier. It may answer some of your questions :

soon every army has T0 4x man machine guns (even Soviets) with AP ammo.
soon every army has 5x Model Squad Armies (Even Soviets) with 2x upgrades
(2x Bar, 2x Bren, 2x LMG42)(Bren are buffed to MG42 levels, so are BAR. Bar can't fire on move)
soon USF has Sherman E8 non-doctrinal for cost of Panther. With Panther stats.
soon SoV has T34-85 non-doctrinal for cost of Panther. With Panther stats.

This is what I don't get. People want a balanced game, but everyone's idea of balance is
that they want to keep their strenghts on their pet faction, but want the opposing faction
's strenghts removed, because " I love scissors, and rocks crush scissors ".

All this bitching is never going to end until all factions are entirely mirror stats.
The Commanders, too.

No, my apologies. Bitching won't stop even then (! Why do USF have Sherman with same stats
as Panther? Panther raped Shermans historically) Sigh...

... But don't you want 5x Model Squads with G43s... that cost 280, not 240.
And losing bunkers. (USF also losing fighting position)(Unless they both can get the
same one, even soviets and british having their MG bunkers).
- Panthers that can de-crew and repair/cap flags.
- Shermans E8s being non-doctrinal and having 100% Panther stats and costs.

All have it or none.
You need to decide.

Are you okay with accepting that factions are different, and some have strenghts that others don't?
Or... do you want everything to be the same?

Please decide:
A - I want all factions to be nerfed hard, except my pet faction.
B - I want all factions to be the same. COMPLETELY the same (Except uniforms, looks)
C - I accept asymmetric balance, and that some units will be different than others, and
that ultimately, that will lead to a different playing style for each faction.

I think everyone should put on their profile, here, and it being tagged onto every post and reply that they make in which camp they belong.

I prefer as it is now, but the bitching is insane.
So I propose C for custom, and B for Ranked PVP automatch. This way, skill would prevail, and people would finally stop bitching about balance.

Add to this an effort to make each unit uselful, in some way. Way too many units are underused, or become useless as time goes on.

I posted this earlier. It may answer some of your questions :

soon every army has T0 4x man machine guns (even Soviets) with AP ammo.
soon every army has 5x Model Squad Armies (Even Soviets) with 2x upgrades
(2x Bar, 2x Bren, 2x LMG42)(Bren are buffed to MG42 levels, so are BAR. Bar can't fire on move)
soon USF has Sherman E8 non-doctrinal for cost of Panther. With Panther stats.
soon SoV has T34-85 non-doctrinal for cost of Panther. With Panther stats.

This is what I don't get. People want a balanced game, but everyone's idea of balance is
that they want to keep their strenghts on their pet faction, but want the opposing faction
's strenghts removed, because " I love scissors, and rocks crush scissors ".

All this bitching is never going to end until all factions are entirely mirror stats.
The Commanders, too.

No, my apologies. Bitching won't stop even then (! Why do USF have Sherman with same stats
as Panther? Panther raped Shermans historically) Sigh...

... But don't you want 5x Model Squads with G43s... that cost 280, not 240.
And losing bunkers. (USF also losing fighting position)(Unless they both can get the
same one, even soviets and british having their MG bunkers).
- Panthers that can de-crew and repair/cap flags.
- Shermans E8s being non-doctrinal and having 100% Panther stats and costs.

All have it or none.
You need to decide.

Are you okay with accepting that factions are different, and some have strenghts that others don't?
Or... do you want everything to be the same?

Please decide:
A - I want all factions to be nerfed hard, except my pet faction.
B - I want all factions to be the same. COMPLETELY the same (Except uniforms, looks)
C - I accept asymmetric balance, and that some units will be different than others, and
that ultimately, that will lead to a different playing style for each faction.

I think everyone should put on their profile, here, and it being tagged onto every post and reply that they make in which camp they belong.

I prefer as it is now, but the bitching is insane.
So I propose C for custom, and B for Ranked PVP automatch. This way, skill would prevail, and people would finally stop bitching about balance.

Add to this an effort to make each unit uselful, in some way. Way too many units are underused, or become useless as time goes on.

D - How about the Armies be symmetrically balanced and not 1:1 similar to each other, hmmm, or is that something that YOU personally don't want?

Because honestly I can guarantee that the Armies can be balanced symmetrically while keeping them unique, hell I'll even do it if given enough time and resources.

That's C, not D

I love C. But it leads to too much bitching. Which makes making
the game mirror stat balance inevitable if you want it to stop.

Interestingly, Riot games is constantly working towards a solution of this problem, as it is most common in their popular title League Of Legends. There are countless unwritten user-generated rules that are common for online titles that may be perceived as socially inapt by new players (e.g. insulting). If you're interested, i'd have a peek on google scholar for some academic research into the subject; there's countless things!

https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=league+of+legends+trolling&btnG=

Woah, that's quite a lot of links. I'm gonna look into these, thanks for the share!

It is really interesting. I've come to the conclusion that most players
do NOT want balance. They want their pet faction buffed and the enemy faction nerfed. Too many games and movies of rambo attest to this.

People play most often to relax, or soothe their inner bunny.
Or their inner Rambo.

- The Wehraboo fanboi who thinks SS are elite and should always win.
- The American Patriot who thinks every war should be instant US win.
- The Soviet fanboi who reacts to nazi fanboism and howls that 83%
of German combat losses were caused by Soviets, and should be reflected
in the game (Also that they didn't do human wave attacks) and that the
Leningrad debacle (1 rifle per 2 man) was not the norm, and simply
hollywoodian insanity.
- Japanese lovers who think Japanese ought to be included in Normandy.
(And be given experimental or imaginary tanks to balance the Japanese)
(Can of worms, then everyone starts requesting same : MAUS, IS-3, Super Pershing, Patton)
- Finnish lovers who think Finns ought to be included in Normandy.
- British who think everyone else is insane.

You - CAN'T - satisfy everybody.

Blizzard came to the conclusion that balance cannot be achieved
because of perception, and playing style, unless you implement mirror
stat ... which honestly, no one wants.

Solution? Game is balanced when everyone complains equally There.

Which is your mod? Give me an idea of what it tries to achieve, and
I'll tell you what I think in a constructive way if I may

I've played WAY MORE games than most people here
I began playing ASL (Squad Leader)(BoardGame) around 1981.

That was insightful to read. I never thought of that, as in, players not actually wanting balance but to have their favourite army supersede other armies just to have an even higher chance of winning. And when you think of it, this is basically equivalent to a Soreloser-Mentality. Unfortunately, a lot of players are like that. So it further proves my claim that whether a player likes/dislikes a change or new content is heavily influenced by whether they win/lose.


I'll PM you my mod. I'm still quite scared of scorching verbal weaponry.., and this is coh2.org so I know if I share my mod here publicly it'll open it to even more scorching bellies of verbal assault. No offense to the good people of coh2.org, but I'm just quite wary of sharing these things (mod) around nowadays. But if anyone else is interested, you can give me a PM or something.