The age-old double soviet sniper conundrum

how many snipers(good players) have you killed with M3

and if I build T1 (which I don't like to do) to control a sniper, I'd better build my sniper (for the long run)

I only answered, because U meant, U need something "to control" the ostsnipers.
Soviet sniper team will always win vs ostsniper, and in a situation, where M3 and 222 can chase a sniper or other units, the M3 does better. It kills much models while the 222 is only testing its gun vs stones on the road.

And U say U don't like to build T1, ok. As ostplayer I have to build T1 and T2, so why should the soviet player only need to build T2.

how many snipers(good players) have you killed with M3

and if I build T1 (which I don't like to do) to control a sniper, I'd better build my sniper (for the long run)

m3 kills ostsniper in a blink of eye...even on retreat.

m3 kills ostsniper in a blink of eye...even on retreat.

You seem to struggle, so let me help you here:

His Point was that not a single Player with a clue will leave sniper without protection, that m3 will not kill ost sniper, because grens will faust/kill it and sniper will run away.

Against players with good micro, Infiltration units or luck is your best bet and you wont kill sniper before mid game.

You seem to struggle, so let me help you here:

His Point was that not a single Player with a clue will leave sniper without protection, that m3 will not kill ost sniper, because grens will faust/kill it and sniper will run away.

Against players with good micro, Infiltration units or luck is your best bet and you wont kill sniper before mid game.

ah..then the player on the last KotH arent good players, which have no clue and let m3 kill sniper..on retreat? Or what do you want to tell us?

If you cite apparently known event, then you may just as well link it, so there is context.

yeah..i look now 30 games for you and search the right moment...lol


if you dont watched them...not my problem.

trust me....there was this szenario that the m3 killed the sniper ...on retreat..in a blink of a eye.

I only answered, because U meant, U need something "to control" the ostsnipers.
Soviet sniper team will always win vs ostsniper, and in a situation, where M3 and 222 can chase a sniper or other units, the M3 does better. It kills much models while the 222 is only testing its gun vs stones on the road.

And U say U don't like to build T1, ok. As ostplayer I have to build T1 and T2, so why should the soviet player only need to build T2.

by the time I get out of T2 in T1, OST will have a bunch of units on the battlefield, maybe even 222.

Yes, I said I don't like T1, but I didn't say that "the Soviet player only needs to build T2."I only said that to make a sniper (instead of m3 which is unlikely to justify itself by that time) would be much more effective. Although the action itself, a return to T1, is highly doubtful

personally, I think the problem with snipers, their speed is the same as the regular infantry, whether it is below 10-15%, then it would be, the sniper could not walk without cover and lure the enemy troops behind him

On the saltiness of replies : Lol, this is COH2 we are talking about. Most games have 1500 to
5000 threads. COH2 is what? 450,000 threads? (50,000? 500,000?) most about I love scissors,
please ban rock or some similar thing.

Try playing soviet yourself. Soviet Sniper is very squishy.
It doesn't have explosive bullet, and it has bolt rifle sniper vs Semi Auto Rifle Sniper of Wehr
sniper. Wehr sniper cannot be wiped by a mortar (82 life vs 80 dmg) or grenade.

Single Mortar round or Rifle Grenade is insta wipe for Soviet Sniper.

It's a lot harder to vet the soviet sniper team.
It's stealth is a lot harder to manage.
It aims and reloads a lot slower.

Soviets don't have heal-in-the-field.
So Wehr sniper can stay on the field longer.
Wehr sniper using explosive bullet can dual shot wipe the entire soviet SOV team.
It takes micro, but is doable. Katitof explained how.

Wehr mortar is one of best ROF and accuracy in game.
If it hits, the chances of a wipe are really strong, since the SOV models are the LOWEST
HEALTH IN THE ENTIRE GAME!

With all due respect, have you read my comments up to this point? Not only have I not at any point argued for the sniper to be "banned" or any such thing, I also in my original post mention that I have and do in fact use the soviet sniper and still find it to be a much to safe investmen on many maps because it is so difficult to wipe on retreat with anything in the early german arsenal

yeah..i look now 30 games for you and search the right moment...lol


if you dont watched them...not my problem.

trust me....there was this szenario that the m3 killed the sniper ...on retreat..in a blink of a eye.

I'm going to be a bitch here and say what Vipper says:

The proof of claim is a responsibility of person making the claim, not his opponent in the discussion.
You made a claim, you pointed out "source", it is within your responsibilities to provide the context as well as a proof to the claim.

Without that I can only say this:

HelpingHans is amount THE very best players in game, yet he still parks his own tanks on his own teller mines. Top players make mistakes as well, but one mistake does not define the player nor the units or scenario involved.

I am not going to trust your claim, because my own experience in the game says it was not possible unless additional factors were present, which you deliberately avoid to present.

ahh im so glad katiof is back, atleast it more fun to read the forums when someone answer back to poeple like ullumulu, which is making this site so toxic.

With all due respect, have you read my comments up to this point? Not only have I not at any point argued for the sniper to be "banned" or any such thing, I also in my original post mention that I have and do in fact use the soviet sniper and still find it to be a much to safe investmen on many maps because it is so difficult to wipe on retreat with anything in the early german arsenal

- I did not. actually. I have the bad habit of replying on a case by case (chronologically). This
creates succeeding posts, which I then sometimes need to go back to and edit. Today, I am trying
a different approach

- Someone said (I have horrible memory for names) : This seems to almost be more of a 222 issue than
anything else. In truth, the game started out with the 221 that then needed to be upgraded to the 222
(giving it a 20mm)(The 20mm being horrible vs Infantry in a sort of Puma-esque fashion). THIS is the
problem it appears. They removed the 221 and defaulted to the 222, but this created a problem.

- Another issue is that on retreat chase, is the 222 focuses on one model to kill it, then has to
change target (?) then whittle down the other model. I don't know if that's a real issue, as we are
talking about the same Squad here.

- I'd like to assume that everyone having pros and cons, it'd be nice to think Sov sniper has ONE
advantage in a domain, at the very least. OST sniper has FPS, health and Stealth advantage and can
stun entire squads. SOV sniper struggles to vet and has a lower ROF.

- In truth, I don't much use my SOV snipers for sniping. I use them as forward observers for my
other units. With hold Fire. In cover. This is how it can sometimes end up be rifle-grenaded
I do the same as OST. Rarely doing sniper-sniper duels. When using snipers offensively, I do so
from behind other units, and retreat the sniper (manually, a few steps) after the first shot, to
prevent counterfire. So don't understand the issue you people are having. Staying your ground
vs a functional sniper after exposing yourself is just asking for it.

- Yes, I ramble. I am French Canadian and cannot think in English. Apologies

Conclusion : I think you people are crazy (Sov Sniper being OP vs OST sniper).
Is my opinion. But then I don't play the way you do
Game balance is as much about how people play the game.

Ahh, yea, I actually *DO* agree that the 222 forced upgrade and bonuses being given wrong
can be an issue. I'd suggest one of two things : (Or both)
- Make 221 the default version, which can then be upgraded.
- Giving a 1.5 rating for it's mg34 vs snipers, as SHOULD be. And not to the 20mm ?
Would this be acceptable?

They basically made a mini-Puma (wrong desription) but in terms of being anti-infantry
of the 222. Giving a 1.5 bonus to it's 50mm (which isn't anti infantry) and giving it 0.75
to it's MG (which is odd for a counter-sniper unit)

Grudgingly, you... may... have... ... ... a... case... *panting*

One thing is obviously true: 222 absolutely sucks against sniper, against the Soviet ones a bit more than against the British one.

=================

- This might be what the actual problem is.
The 221 was designed as the anti-sniper unit, with potential to be upgraded into a mini-puma
(losing anti sniper abilities). Then they made the 222 the default version, cripping OST's
Anti-Sniper unit.

ahh im so glad katiof is back, atleast it more fun to read the forums when someone answer back to poeple like ullumulu, which is making this site so toxic.

And I agree on Katitof being back. +1
I envy Katitof's oratory talent. Sigh.

PS :
Hey, t'es-tu Quebecois itoo? Ca fait vachement plaisir de voir un autre Quebecois icitte

The proof of claim is a responsibility of person making the claim, not his opponent in the discussion.
You made a claim, you pointed out "source", it is within your responsibilities to provide the context as well as a proof to the claim.

Funny, I remember you having said the following in an other thread when someone asked you for a source for an assertion of yours:

Jump back to quoted post27 Feb 2018, 13:02 PMVipper

Can we have a quote either by Relic or the moders pls?

Yes, if you will look for it.
Amoung Mr.Smiths posts if I recall correctly.

If you are lucky, you will have to go only through couple of hundred between his .org and official forum posts to find it.

If you need secretary, employ one.

Funny how your standards change when it suits you.

You are by far the most hypocritical and also insufferably condescending person here. You must have a sad life. I feel sorry for the people around you, if there are any.

I wanted to have said this once.

If you would read up on that conversation, notice its tone and not pick a random post out of context, that would be great.

It wasn't in the last 6 KotH games -- VonIvan and Luvnest played soviet, but there was no M3 chases sniper down.

I'm guessing he meant in some of the previous games (episode 9 or earlier) and I can't be bothered to check that, though if you just look at match-ups it would point out which one has soviet v ostheer since that's the only combo that can have that result.

Though LOL at something happening once in a game and therefor it is now "a thing".

It wasn't in the last 6 KotH games -- VonIvan and Luvnest played soviet, but there was no M3 chases sniper down.

I'm guessing he meant in some of the previous games (episode 9 or earlier) and I can't be bothered to check that, though if you just look at match-ups it would point out which one has soviet v ostheer since that's the only combo that can have that result.

Though LOL at something happening once in a game and therefor it is now "a thing".

- Pz 4 wiped a squad of Riflemen (dual bar) with a single shot. It's first shot.
OP? Of course not It's not even that rare, to be honest.

- I'm of the opinion that Axis units being wiped is criminal because 'they need their vet'.
And when allied units are being wiped it's okay? Yes. Bias. (Looks hard at Stuka)
PanzerWerfer wiping multi Squads, too. I'd say it's fairly common.