Grens with LMG upgrade

If you micro your sniper, it will inflict far more than its price in MP damage, without the opponent being able to retaliate. So yes, it's very much worth it.

That is exactly the problem, you have to focus on controlling few super units instead of enjoying flanking with infantry.

Well, I do it and it works. Ooorah means they either have to follow you and abandon their ground, or hold it and let you cap. On some maps (Langreskaya especially) it's easy to run straight to their cutoff. The sniper arrives soon anyway, and once he's their its open season.

Ooorah is good but if you are building a sniper early you will not have the conscripts needed to do what you are saying. You need 3-4 conscript squads to do that and its not possible to get all of them plus early sniper.

I do not understand why grenadiers (without a doctrine) scale so easily in this game while conscripts REQUIRE a doctrine to effectively scale.

I think the LMG upgrade should only be available after phase 2 upgrade. That will insure that they are not being used against weak none vetted conscripts by that point.

Just... no. They cost 60 munitions. Conscript Assault Package costs 20. HTD is free. Conscripts scale just fine. You're insane if you think pushing the MG42 to Tier 3 is a good idea.

I do not understand why grenadiers (without a doctrine) scale so easily in this game while conscripts REQUIRE a doctrine to effectively scale.


Medic bunkers returned dead units into grenadiers rather than volks for a reason.

Merge and Oorah are the scaling Conscripts get.

You're insane if you think pushing the MG42 to Tier 3 is a good idea.

Its not me that is insane but its you that is disrespectful for making such comment to someone who is making a suggestion.

As far as insults go, its pretty tame to call someone insane. Check out the official forums if you want to see insults. I would have said moving LMG to T3 was possibly the worst suggestion ever. There, that better?

I do not understand why grenadiers (without a doctrine) scale so easily in this game while conscripts REQUIRE a doctrine to effectively scale.


Medic bunkers returned dead units into grenadiers rather than volks for a reason.

I understand what you mean and I've discussed about this with Peter from Relic. Basically Grenadiers are meant to scale slightly better than Conscripts due to the fact Germans lack elitè infantry like Guards and Shock Troops (PGs can cover one of the two roles being better than Russians only in the AT role and losing to Shock Troops in the AI role).

The thing is: the HP intel bulletins, together with the high output damage of the LMG42 make this unit vet very fast in the game standing the fight even when outnumbered, allowing you to have a couple of vet2-3 grens squads when your opponent has still vet1 conscripts.

This replay (it's still viewable) shows exactly what I'm talking about: even with hit the dirt and PPSh LMGs will get grens to vet3 so fast that your conscripts will either die before getting vet3 or will simply become useless.
After some experiments (as you can see in the replay) I think that in the late game M3s and flames are required to counter them. A late game Penal Battalion squad or flame engies into M3 could stand the fight, especially once vetted since they have more damage output than grenadiers.

The two issues that cause this "unbalance" are, in my opinion, intel bulletins and the veterancy system: the whole intel bulletins system is being looked at these days and should be fixed pretty soon, the veterancy system is something they are looking too but I can't tell you anything yet.

The only change I would like to see/test is a small indirect change to LMGs, like a slight increase in their cost or a small nerf on the accuracy.

Can you explain a bit more about the bulletins and what exactly are they looking to change? The same HP bulletins are available for conscripts as well so I don't see how this should have this much of a impact

The extra HP helps grenadiers more since for equal bonus HP bulletins they deal more damage with LMGs than Conscripts, so they get more advantage since the capacity to absorb more damage will indirecly make them receive less (since usually you don't fight till death but retreat once you realize you will lose the fight). Bulletins are still being worked by Relic, I can't tell you more