Hello everybody,
me and a buddy have been noticing a strong shift in our 2vs2 games. Ostheer seems to go 1 or 2 HMG's and then follow up with lots of Grenadiers, which all receive the LMG upgrade. They seem to build at least two munitions caches. Then come the Panzergrenadiers, easily upgraded with Panzerschrecks. Tanks do not come until later, I only see halftracks and armored cars in the beginning.
We have lost many times to this playstyle, and have been experiencing this in the last few days. We tried all kinds of different openings and builds, bot none seem to be very effective against it.
How would you hanlde this? I would be thankful for some hints...
Cheers!
Grens with LMG upgrade
15 Aug 2013, 11:19 AM
#1
Posts: 219
15 Aug 2013, 11:20 AM
#2
Posts: 531
shock troops, clown cars with flamers, try to harass their munis caches
15 Aug 2013, 11:37 AM
#3
Posts: 219
Tried that, many times. Clown cars go down very fast. I found it better to have a sniper in it, keeping distance.
Funny, you mentioning shock troops. Just yesterday, I had two squads of shockers attack one upgraded panzergrenadier squad. I came in close, and had to retreat. Maybe he got lucky? He still had 4 men in the squad left, only the squad health was down low. I know shockers work for the most part, but only effective when vetted...
We have had some good results with Penals, but we end up being overrun by the mass of grenadiers...
Funny, you mentioning shock troops. Just yesterday, I had two squads of shockers attack one upgraded panzergrenadier squad. I came in close, and had to retreat. Maybe he got lucky? He still had 4 men in the squad left, only the squad health was down low. I know shockers work for the most part, but only effective when vetted...
We have had some good results with Penals, but we end up being overrun by the mass of grenadiers...
15 Aug 2013, 12:00 PM
#4
Posts: 53
The solution is simple: Snipers and fast T70 and or M5 Quad and later KV8 and his infantry is all dead.
15 Aug 2013, 12:10 PM
#5
2 
Posts: 2181
Tried that, many times. Clown cars go down very fast. I found it better to have a sniper in it, keeping distance.
Funny, you mentioning shock troops. Just yesterday, I had two squads of shockers attack one upgraded panzergrenadier squad. I came in close, and had to retreat. Maybe he got lucky? He still had 4 men in the squad left, only the squad health was down low. I know shockers work for the most part, but only effective when vetted...
We have had some good results with Penals, but we end up being overrun by the mass of grenadiers...
Shock troopers easily win a 1v1 with pgrens if no nades are thrown. What do you mean by "upgraded"? Shrecks or g43's
Either way 2 shocks should wreck the pgrens. Maybe you had lowhealth and he was in green cover
15 Aug 2013, 12:18 PM
#6
Posts: 627
Maxims and Snipers followed up by Katushyas. The reason I say Kutshyas is (A) Because they're ridiculously powerful and long range, and (B) you can transfer to SU-85 when you think tanks will come out.
Penal Battalions + Snipers is also cheaper to put out than Maxim + Sniper and it'll let you tech quicker as well as brawl with infantry.
Your doctrine choice should have a KV-8 in it, or if you don't want to do that, have Shocktroopers and Assault Package on Conscripts.
Penal Battalions + Snipers is also cheaper to put out than Maxim + Sniper and it'll let you tech quicker as well as brawl with infantry.
Your doctrine choice should have a KV-8 in it, or if you don't want to do that, have Shocktroopers and Assault Package on Conscripts.
15 Aug 2013, 12:20 PM
#7
17 
Posts: 2838 | Subs: 3
I had two squads of shockers attack one upgraded panzergrenadier squad. I came in close, and had to retreat. Maybe he got lucky?
That is a surprising outcome, to say the least. Typically, shock troops > panzergrenadiers
15 Aug 2013, 12:33 PM
#8
Posts: 176
Camo'd LMG / G43 Grenadiers are the strongest AI in the game. I'd suggest more Osteer players give them a try as when they hit Vet 2 there just monstrous killing machines.
15 Aug 2013, 13:26 PM
#9
Posts: 219
Thanks for the hints so far. Has anybody else come upon the grenspam, too?
The Panzergrens were upgraded with Schrecks, in yellow cover. I was not in cover, yet. Since my Shockers usually shred unvetted Grenadiers, I was quite surprised of the outcome myself. Especially since the AI strength of Schrecked Grens will be reduced by half, right? I was able to retreat them, one squad with two men left and the other with three.
The Panzergrens were upgraded with Schrecks, in yellow cover. I was not in cover, yet. Since my Shockers usually shred unvetted Grenadiers, I was quite surprised of the outcome myself. Especially since the AI strength of Schrecked Grens will be reduced by half, right? I was able to retreat them, one squad with two men left and the other with three.
15 Aug 2013, 18:39 PM
#10
Posts: 337
Thanks for the hints so far. Has anybody else come upon the grenspam, too?
The Panzergrens were upgraded with Schrecks, in yellow cover. I was not in cover, yet. Since my Shockers usually shred unvetted Grenadiers, I was quite surprised of the outcome myself. Especially since the AI strength of Schrecked Grens will be reduced by half, right? I was able to retreat them, one squad with two men left and the other with three.
Well this game has a huge luck component. If the shreks gets a lucky hit and instantly kill a few of your shocks, then you will lose the ensuing fight handily.
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15 Aug 2013, 19:14 PM
#11
Posts: 896
Those are good suggestions for mostly the mid game, but what about early game? It seems one squad of grenadiers with LMG upgrade can take on 2 conscripts easily. Those come very early in the game in maps with lots of ammo.
16 Aug 2013, 08:54 AM
#12
Posts: 219
They really do tear up conscripts for breakfast. A good flank can help, especially a well placed molotov. But often, I find myself flanking HMG's in the beginning to hinder them locking down fuel points... which isn't that important since they rely more on munitions.
16 Aug 2013, 23:45 PM
#13
Posts: 394
They really do tear up conscripts for breakfast. A good flank can help, especially a well placed molotov. But often, I find myself flanking HMG's in the beginning to hinder them locking down fuel points... which isn't that important since they rely more on munitions.
The solutions is simple as previously stated:
Your mate goes Maxims, you get Snipers
Fast T70
KV8 Flamers and Shocks
Germans have no way of stopping this, without Armor.
I'm sorry, but if there is one clear advantage Soviets have over Germans that is their Infantry and AI capability. This is not a problem.
Porygon Wrote:
I don't like Soviet neither, but please cake, just fuck off back to the official noob forum.
Vetlolcake:
Should i just attack move to get there? I might get there easier. Like sovs do
I don't like Soviet neither, but please cake, just fuck off back to the official noob forum.
Vetlolcake:
Should i just attack move to get there? I might get there easier. Like sovs do
17 Aug 2013, 00:14 AM
#14
Posts: 176
Which forces them to build Armour, which falls into the SU-85's field of specialty. Shocker.
17 Aug 2013, 03:42 AM
#15
Posts: 954
DO NOT GO SOVIET TIER 3 unless you are wining too much, double T4 and KV-8, the fcking tier 3 gonna let you down down down when you face competence ostheer player
KV-8+Shock and backup with the SU-85, I say again......do not go soviet Tier3 unless you gain dominance of the map, the recent MG42&suppression bulletin combo madness, I don't think you could do that.
KV-8+Shock and backup with the SU-85, I say again......do not go soviet Tier3 unless you gain dominance of the map, the recent MG42&suppression bulletin combo madness, I don't think you could do that.
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
17 Aug 2013, 04:18 AM
#16
Posts: 665
Snipers + elite infantry. Shock troops work best, but Guards with DPs can usually handle a LMG gren squad, and even PGrens if they can get a grenade out, and they can be useful vs scout cars too. Snipers are the great equalizer, cutting down on their firepower and inflicting massive MP bleed per shot. If I see 3 or more grens, I always get a sniper. Don't bother with clown car shenanigans, if you micro them well snipers can last the game. Conscripts just don't cut it against Axis infantry. Then usually T4 for SU-85s in prevision of the inevitable tanks.
Other things that work are Maxims, but I find that they get too vulnerable to riflenades as Grens gain vet. They do allow for AT guns, opening the way for T3 and a T70/T-34. But I prefer snipers myself.
Very early game, simply avoid LMG grens. Cap around them until your sniper can kill them; thanks to Ooorah, he's pretty much forced to give up his map control.
Other things that work are Maxims, but I find that they get too vulnerable to riflenades as Grens gain vet. They do allow for AT guns, opening the way for T3 and a T70/T-34. But I prefer snipers myself.
Very early game, simply avoid LMG grens. Cap around them until your sniper can kill them; thanks to Ooorah, he's pretty much forced to give up his map control.
17 Aug 2013, 05:29 AM
#17
Posts: 896
Snipers + elite infantry. Shock troops work best, but Guards with DPs can usually handle a LMG gren squad, and even PGrens if they can get a grenade out, and they can be useful vs scout cars too. Snipers are the great equalizer, cutting down on their firepower and inflicting massive MP bleed per shot.
so you need 720mp to fight off a 240mp unit with 60ammo upgrade?
Very early game, simply avoid LMG grens. Cap around them until your sniper can kill them; thanks to Ooorah, he's pretty much forced to give up his map control.
That doesn't work because unlike coh1 you don't have low cost engineers that can help u cap and retreat like you do with PE. If you follow this strategy they will have map control. Especially so if they have 4 gren squads for example.
17 Aug 2013, 14:12 PM
#18
Posts: 665
so you need 720mp to fight off a 240mp unit with 60ammo upgrade?
That doesn't work because unlike coh1 you don't have low cost engineers that can help u cap and retreat like you do with PE. If you follow this strategy they will have map control. Especially so if they have 4 gren squads for example.
If you micro your sniper, it will inflict far more than its price in MP damage, without the opponent being able to retaliate. So yes, it's very much worth it.
Well, I do it and it works. Ooorah means they either have to follow you and abandon their ground, or hold it and let you cap. On some maps (Langreskaya especially) it's easy to run straight to their cutoff. The sniper arrives soon anyway, and once he's their its open season.
20 Aug 2013, 07:56 AM
#19
Posts: 59
I do not understand why grenadiers (without a doctrine) scale so easily in this game while conscripts REQUIRE a doctrine to effectively scale.
Medic bunkers returned dead units into grenadiers rather than volks for a reason.
Medic bunkers returned dead units into grenadiers rather than volks for a reason.
20 Aug 2013, 09:06 AM
#20
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedPossibly cos Oorah, Merge and more efficient weapon capturing.
Sov infantry is structured differently. PPsHs are available indoctrine as is a slightly wider infantry choice pool.
Sov infantry is structured differently. PPsHs are available indoctrine as is a slightly wider infantry choice pool.
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