OKW Handheld AT solution.

Guard Blobs are currently strong.

Guard Blobs are currently strong.

I'm looking forward to see any videos in the trending section with guard blobs!

it isnt really a very effective counter since this both unit have to good AI when equiped as AT unit.

you must dumb enough to equip all your infterny only with AT handhelds..

Someone lost consistency I see.

it isnt really a very effective counter since this both unit have to good AI when equiped as AT unit.

yes volks have a better chance...but will still lose models unexpected fast.

This fantasy that PTRS Penals have too good AI

Edit - here is an idea. What if Sturms are allowed to upgrade a 2nd shrek after T4 building is placed down? That way they aren't OP against light vehicles but gives OKW more punch in late game without changing too much

This fantasy that PTRS Penals have too good AI

Edit - here is an idea. What if Sturms are allowed to upgrade a 2nd shrek after T4 building is placed down? That way they aren't OP against light vehicles but gives OKW more punch in late game without changing too much

They will complain they need T4 which is not early enough, that they need to pay for the 2nd shreck then, or that Sturmies die too quickly because they only have 4 models.
You can't win here, sadly.

This fantasy that PTRS Penals have too good AI

Edit - here is an idea. What if Sturms are allowed to upgrade a 2nd shrek after T4 building is placed down? That way they aren't OP against light vehicles but gives OKW more punch in late game without changing too much

i just tested in cheat mods, fully vetted penals + ptrs vs fully vetted grens. done 5 tests penals won every time , so do u wna continue talking more out of ur backside about too good ai?

i just tested in cheat mods, fully vetted penals + ptrs vs fully vetted grens. done 5 tests penals won every time , so do u wna continue talking more out of ur backside about too good ai?

What range?
Against what? Upgrades? Cover? Or impossible and unrealistic scenario with no cover and no LMG/STG?
Did you do actual real and possible thing aka penals closing on stationary LMG grens(as anything else is unrealistic to happen and PTRS penals will lose hard on long range against LMG grens), or vacuum pointless test where you placed two squads next to each other and made them different sides?(let me remind you that soviet penals are not eldar warp spiders and can't get instantly on top of opponent).

And lastly, where is the replay or any other proof?

What range?
Against what? Upgrades? Cover? Or impossible and unrealistic scenario with no cover and no LMG/STG?
Did you do actual real and possible thing aka penals closing on stationary LMG grens(as anything else is unrealistic to happen and PTRS penals will lose hard on long range against LMG grens), or vacuum pointless test where you placed two squads next to each other and made them different sides?(let me remind you that soviet penals are not eldar warp spiders and can't get instantly on top of opponent).

And lastly, where is the replay or any other proof?

both behind green cover mid and long range and no LMG. so what if the grens wer not upgraded? does that mean an AT upgraded penals should still rofl stomp them every time (if penals closed in it would have been worse for the grens). His point was penals with ptrs doesn't have too good AI, clearly they still do.

if u think im making this up go ingame ans test urself

so what if the grens wer not upgraded?

Because its unrealistic scenario?
Its like having tommies in late game, but without LMGs or volks without STGs, it simply does not happen, is unrealistic and puts a bias on your "test".

does that mean an AT upgraded penals should still rofl stomp them every time (if penals closed in it would have been worse for the grens). His point was penals with ptrs doesn't have too good AI, clearly they still do.

If you made the test without bias in a scenario that actually is possible(which means grens WILL have LMG), then sure, someone would be rofl stomped, but it wouldn't be grens.

His point still stands, because your test was flawed and biased and proved nothing.

Because its unrealistic scenario?
Its like having tommies in late game, but without LMGs or volks without STGs, it simply does not happen, is unrealistic and puts a bias on your "test".



If you made the test without bias in a scenario that actually is possible(which means grens WILL have LMG), then sure, someone would be rofl stomped, but it wouldn't be grens.

His point still stands, because your test was flawed and biased and proved nothing.

what r u on about? his point was that penals with PTRS does not have powerful AI, my point was to prove that its still very effective in the AI department WITH the PTRS.

please katitof, please ur the last person on this plant to be talking about bias lol

did some tests again, this time with grens upgraded with LMG, grens would beat penals with PTRS at long range with 1-2 models remaining.

I also tested close range (closing in), and PTRS penals won every time with 3-5 models remaining. Sorry but penals AI is still strong with PTRS. I wonder what u will say now katitof, maybe g43's this time?, rifle nades? i wonder what now

Probably cover.

both behind green cover mid and long range and no LMG. so what if the grens wer not upgraded? does that mean an AT upgraded penals should still rofl stomp them every time (if penals closed in it would have been worse for the grens). His point was penals with ptrs doesn't have too good AI, clearly they still do.

if u think im making this up go ingame ans test urself

I think either you test them with cover been destroyed on grens side (due to PTRS) or you don't know what long range is.

6 test each.
Vet 0, range 30 (2 soviet sandbag range), Vanilla Grens vs PTRS Penals: 5/1 in favour of grens. 2 times 2 models left for grens, 2 times 4 models (with low HP), 1 time 1 model, 1 time 2 models Penals (extremely low HP). In the case of the Penal victory, grens model were sniped early for a 2v4 model count fight. Same with the 4 model victory on Grens.

12 test, cause it was close to 50/50.
Vet 3, range 30:
1st batch: 3 Penals wins (2x2m ; 1x3m). 3 Gren wins (1x1m ; 1x2m ; 1x3m)
2nd batch: 4 Penal wins (2x4m ; 1x5m ; 1x3m). 2 Gren wins (1x1m ; 1x3m)

6test
Vet3, range 22:
3 Penals wins (2x3m ; 1x1m). 3 Gren wins (1x3m ; 1x2m ; 1x1m)

6test
Vet0, range 22:

5 Gren win: (2x1m ; 2x2m ; 1xgm). 1 Penal win (1x4m). Note: in all cases, all squads had extremely low HP for model count. In the case of 1 model gren winning for ex: it basically won after been going 1v2 against the 2 PTRS models.

6test
Vet3, range 30, sandbag destroyable cover:
5 Penal win: (2x2m ; 1x3m ; 1x4m ; 1x6m). 1 Gren win (1x4m)

3test
Vet3, range 30, LMG:
3 Gren win with 3 models.

3test
Vet3, range 22, LMG:
3 Gren win (2x3m ; 1x1m)

6test
Vet3, range 10, LMG:
5 Gren win (3x2m ; 1x1m ; 1x3m). 1 Penal win (1x2m)

Unless cheatcommands v1 is flawed or easy CPU has something to do with it, test has too much variance with your results. Gonna try with cheatcommands v2 but less test cause it takes more time.

Cheat commands v2, game ai expert:

3 Test.
Vet0, range 30
3 win Gren. 2x3m ; 1x1m

6test
Vet3, range 30
4 Gren wins: 2x1m ; 1x4m ; 1x2m. 2 Penal wins: 1x6m ; 1x4m

3test
Vet3, range 12, LMG, destroyable cover
2 Gren win: 1x2m ; 1x1m. 1 Penal win: 1x4m.

6test
No cover, vet 3, range 30
3 Penal win: (1x3m ; 1x4m ; 1x2m). 3 Gren wins: (1x3m ; 1x2m ;1x1m)

All i can say is there is high variance. But saying Penals/Gren always win is false.

Cheat commands v2, game ai expert:

3 Test.
Vet0, range 30
3 win Gren. 2x3m ; 1x1m

6test
Vet3, range 30
4 Gren wins: 2x1m ; 1x4m ; 1x2m. 2 Penal wins: 1x6m ; 1x4m

3test
Vet3, range 12, LMG, destroyable cover
2 Gren win: 1x2m ; 1x1m. 1 Penal win: 1x4m.

6test
No cover, vet 3, range 30
3 Penal win: (1x3m ; 1x4m ; 1x2m). 3 Gren wins: (1x3m ; 1x2m ;1x1m)

All i can say is there is high variance. But saying Penals/Gren always win is false.

yeah exacly this is what i mean, people keep saying by upgrading PTRS penals or putting a bazooka on a riflemen squad is a massive nerf to their AI when they are still very effective in that department.

And heading back to topic how about if volks had the option to upgrade to the Panzerbüchse 38 (im sure rhats still in the game) and volks can have an option between that or stg's

4 guards vet3 with Upgrades against 6 volks with stgs

guess who Won?

4 guards vet3 with Upgrades against 6 volks with stgs

guess who Won?

You do realize guard PTRS does not hamper their AI(as already mentioned in this very thread) and guards are much, MUCH more expensive elite doctrinal infantry?

What is your point?

Do you put up P4s against IS-2 to prove P4s are weak too?

yeah exacly this is what i mean, people keep saying by upgrading PTRS penals or putting a bazooka on a riflemen squad is a massive nerf to their AI when they are still very effective in that department.

And heading back to topic how about if volks had the option to upgrade to the Panzerbüchse 38 (im sure rhats still in the game) and volks can have an option between that or stg's

really now. that show penal PTRS. it's a huge leap in logic to go to bazooka rifleman.

for one thing, the penal still have 4 rifle after the PTRS upgrade. The riflemen is down to 3 rifles.



I don't like PTRS penal and I think it was a mistake to introduce them to the game. It is unfortunate that the attempt to buff one of the worst unit in the game have turn it into such a problematic unit.

really now. that show penal PTRS. it's a huge leap in logic to go to bazooka rifleman.

for one thing, the penal still have 4 rifle after the PTRS upgrade. The riflemen is down to 3 rifles.



I don't like PTRS penal and I think it was a mistake to introduce them to the game. It is unfortunate that the attempt to buff one of the worst unit in the game have turn it into such a problematic unit.

ehm

penals are 6 man squads so its 5 rifles with ptrs and riflemen are 5 so with bazooka that 4 rifles lol