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OKW Handheld AT solution.

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15 Mar 2018, 04:21 AM
#121
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



The sturmpio's long range firepower is pretty mediocre, even if they can survive at long range.

In addition, the Okw shouldn't really need sturm for anti-infantry duty by late game. The volks and ober practically fill the need for infantry combat. There's no reason to crowd the faction with sturm as well.

Giving the sturm to double equip schreck+sweeper would benefit the okw alot better significantly since mp44 volks is enough for most purposes.

The higher population on the storm also mean the okw struggle to effectively maintain minesweeper coverage.


Okw lineup is perfect for sturms to transition from an AI squad to support: at the start they are very high impact, as they begin to get outnumbered volks fill the ranks, as volks become less punchy obers come in.

Sturms used to pull double duty of both sweeper and shrek, which meant there was never NOT a reason to throw a shrek on them and thats bad design. By the time they are less effective fighting infantry they shouldnt perfectly amd thoughtlessly into a super support role. If you are worried about mines you can get a mine sweeper, but if you want AT there has to be some sort of drawback, reducing AI doesnt count if they are already combat ineffective when you need it.
15 Mar 2018, 09:54 AM
#122
avatar of Bratkartoffel

Posts: 24

Well, in every game against decent players you are going to need a minesweeper! So, when you need antitank support, you have to build a second sturm. Now you end up with two units with very limited fightingabilities in the lategame, beside popcap problems.

And last but not least you will not often see vet 4 or 5 on them, because of this in addiction to limited squadsize (lucky mortarhit, etc.).

Yeah, they have to get some love. I would like to use them sometime with flamer, but that would leave me without important other tools - so sadly i cant!
15 Mar 2018, 14:13 PM
#123
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Well, in every game against decent players you are going to need a minesweeper! So, when you need antitank support, you have to build a second sturm. Now you end up with two units with very limited fightingabilities in the lategame, beside popcap problems.

How is that a problem?
Ost and sov very often end up with 2-3 or more CEs or pios to Keep repairs up and that is more Pop and mp then a pair of spios and you complain about getting 2nd if you commited one to actually potent AT weapon, while aforementioned CEs and Pios can not even engage infantry at that point due to upgrades and vet?

Plus all factions can do just fine without handheld at, okw is no different here, use mines and puppchens and you will be ok.
16 Mar 2018, 01:10 AM
#124
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Mar 2018, 14:13 PMKatitof

How is that a problem?
Ost and sov very often end up with 2-3 or more CEs or pios to Keep repairs up and that is more Pop and mp then a pair of spios and you complain about getting 2nd if you commited one to actually potent AT weapon, while aforementioned CEs and Pios can not even engage infantry at that point due to upgrades and vet?

Plus all factions can do just fine without handheld at, okw is no different here, use mines and puppchens and you will be ok.


the RE, sapper(4 men), sov eng, and wehr pio are all 5 pop. Sturmpio are 8 pops.

2 sturmpop still take 1 more pop than 3 of their counterpart. (16 vs 15) The sapper and RE can both go double ATW + minesweeper as well.
16 Mar 2018, 01:22 AM
#125
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1



the RE, sapper(4 men), sov eng, and wehr pio are all 5 pop. Sturmpio are 8 pops.

2 sturmpop still take 1 more pop than 3 of their counterpart. (16 vs 15) The sapper and RE can both go double ATW + minesweeper as well.



I dont see an issue with making Strums the same pop as other pios while giving them double upgrades. By the late game their AI isnt nearly as oppressive as early game and it doesnt force the player to choose between shreks or sweeper
16 Mar 2018, 02:47 AM
#126
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



the RE, sapper(4 men), sov eng, and wehr pio are all 5 pop. Sturmpio are 8 pops.

2 sturmpop still take 1 more pop than 3 of their counterpart. (16 vs 15) The sapper and RE can both go double ATW + minesweeper as well.


To be fair ive never retreated an mg42 because "combat" "engineers" flanked it, it would actually probably take 3 to be any threat at all...

Cant say the same for sturms

Aside from just general repair duty sturma can also heal 3 squads without vet (and faster than pios who require vet 1)

Even after they have lost their ability to assault they retain the ability for opportunity jumps (especially when armed with a sweeper since they can put it away) and guarding flanks. They are more because they are better, not objectively better, but better in all ways (except for sappers obviously but thats because tommies are super squishy out of cover and bleed like a stomach wound...oh wait)
16 Mar 2018, 03:58 AM
#127
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930




I dont see an issue with making Strums the same pop as other pios while giving them double upgrades. By the late game their AI isnt nearly as oppressive as early game and it doesnt force the player to choose between shreks or sweeper


The advantages sturmp have over the other engineer are still there, even if it's not that good.

Sturmp lack the long range dps for line fighting, but their dps are still useful from time to time.



To be fair ive never retreated an mg42 because "combat" "engineers" flanked it, it would actually probably take 3 to be any threat at all...

Cant say the same for sturms

Aside from just general repair duty sturma can also heal 3 squads without vet (and faster than pios who require vet 1)

Even after they have lost their ability to assault they retain the ability for opportunity jumps (especially when armed with a sweeper since they can put it away) and guarding flanks. They are more because they are better, not objectively better, but better in all ways (except for sappers obviously but thats because tommies are super squishy out of cover and bleed like a stomach wound...oh wait)


flanking opportunity for sturmp lessen as the game move into mid and late game. Commandos have cloak. Shocktroops are extremely durable and have smoke. Paratrooper and ober get alternative upgrade.

Yes, that capability is still there, but support is going to be the more important role for sturmpio. (which is why I don't think sturmp should be 5 pop like the other squad).
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