I believe most people dislike the ability of "skill" planes being able to cut off a large section of the map. I feel like both axis and allied players agree that dealing with the annoying. I think a good fix for these would be by making all loitering abilities into strafes instead.
Due to this the plane abilities will:
1. Require actual skill in when to use and where to place it. IE You can't just click where the enemy is and force them to back off for the given ability time.
2. Make end game plane abilities less dominant and effective against tanks/infantry
I feel like a good example of this is the Advanced Warfare Doc for Soviets. This doc had a strafe for the IL2 Sturmovik attacks instead of a loiter. While this ability is still strong it is much more situational when compared to the loitering.
Of course, some of the loiters would need to be patch/balanced to become a strafe, but I feel that this would help prevent planes from becoming too dominant in the late game.
Make all Loiter plane abilities a lined strafe
21 Feb 2018, 22:43 PM
#1
Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1
bg /l
21 Feb 2018, 23:57 PM
#2
Posts: 2145 | Subs: 2
Please remove ALL of the one click win abilities. They all suck and detract from game play in a major way.
22 Feb 2018, 00:06 AM
#3
Posts: 823 | Subs: 3
get anti air? Loiters are not much of a problem if you have anti air :-D
Me: I am scared, that i will need to shake ma head the same as when i read ur posts, so i rather not
Katitof: Its not even close to me even at my worst in the past, imagine ullu, incendiary, aaa, vetlolcake and disto merge into one mega axis zord with forcefield protecting it from accepting any factual data. Add to that a victim card(his rumblings at my PM).
Katitof: Its not even close to me even at my worst in the past, imagine ullu, incendiary, aaa, vetlolcake and disto merge into one mega axis zord with forcefield protecting it from accepting any factual data. Add to that a victim card(his rumblings at my PM).
22 Feb 2018, 00:16 AM
#4
Posts: 515
tis true, if u micro ur flak ht and dont lose it like nub then it+t4 truck ez kill loiter plans
22 Feb 2018, 00:45 AM
#5
Posts: 2742
All non-recon loiters always seemed like too much. I feel like their cost and power have too much overlap to find a proper balance. In most cases they end up being either too powerful or too weak.
Recon loiters aren't the worst thing in the world, especially in a game with things like offmap flares.
Although at the same time, only loiters really suffer from anti-air units. Single pass strafes tend to be able to deliver their payloads before being shot down, or at least much moreso in comparison to loiters. Loitering planes are exactly what AA units are meant for. (Their positioning should be to the side of the planes, not directly underneath them for them to be reliable.)
If, say, all loiters were changed to strafes, so all plane abilities were single pass, then there would have to be some kind of penalty for losing a plane. Say, a minutes long timer disabling ALL plane abilities for the player/team before cooldown.
Recon loiters aren't the worst thing in the world, especially in a game with things like offmap flares.
Although at the same time, only loiters really suffer from anti-air units. Single pass strafes tend to be able to deliver their payloads before being shot down, or at least much moreso in comparison to loiters. Loitering planes are exactly what AA units are meant for. (Their positioning should be to the side of the planes, not directly underneath them for them to be reliable.)
If, say, all loiters were changed to strafes, so all plane abilities were single pass, then there would have to be some kind of penalty for losing a plane. Say, a minutes long timer disabling ALL plane abilities for the player/team before cooldown.
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22 Feb 2018, 05:52 AM
#6
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
get anti air? Loiters are not much of a problem if you have anti air :-D
This.
Everything always is "overpowered" if you don't get counter to it.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
22 Feb 2018, 06:07 AM
#7
Posts: 1534 | Subs: 1
Just because something can be countered doesn't make it good design. And even with counters I've seen loiters last their entire duration.
The fact is loiters require almost no player input while basically being a full on assault on their own, denying large amounts of territory and normally causing a full on retreat.
Players can hope an AA unit will knock out the loiter but most of the time it is not reliable and you'll end up losing units waiting for the AA to do its job.
The fact is loiters require almost no player input while basically being a full on assault on their own, denying large amounts of territory and normally causing a full on retreat.
Players can hope an AA unit will knock out the loiter but most of the time it is not reliable and you'll end up losing units waiting for the AA to do its job.
22 Feb 2018, 07:06 AM
#8
Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1
Just because something can be countered doesn't make it good design. And even with counters I've seen loiters last their entire duration.
The fact is loiters have almost no player input while basically being a full on assault on their own, denying large amounts of territory and normally causing a full on retreat.
This.
Everything always is "overpowered" if you don't get counter to it.
This is my issue. I have no problem with a large CP late game air strike being strong IF it requires actual effort to use. Loiters are literally point and click abilities that require either micro out of the given area or a dedicated unit which costs both manpower and fuel (there are no cheap anti air). A lot of people complained about how auto fire mortars required no player input into it to be effective, but I feel the loiter planes are even a worse example of a lack of player input.
Also for most factions (with the exception of OKW) Anti air isnt a must build. The USF half track while good is a bitch to micro and most LT builds go m20 over it, Soviets don't have any Anti AIr, Ostheer will be forced to delay a p4 or stug for an Ostwind, and the british either tech for bofors instead of AEC or Centaur over Cromwell. All of which can set you back just a counter a commander ability. Yet if you dont get these the ability can very well change engagements for you.
tis true, if u micro ur flak ht and dont lose it like nub then it+t4 truck ez kill loiter plans
That's just for OKW though, what about Soviets, Ost, USF, or Brits who aren't required/given an anti air unit every game which, if built, could set back a generalist tank or in the soviets case don't have anti air?
bg /l
22 Feb 2018, 07:08 AM
#9
Posts: 607
I'd also settle for "plane doesn't randomly show up after the targeting circle has left the mini-map".
22 Feb 2018, 07:28 AM
#10
Posts: 264
No, just no. I prefer to have my easy win button that denies a large part of the map for my opponent. It's also great fun to have the loiter planes attack the enemy while he is in his base, just to add insult to injury.
besides you can just move your units out of the circle once you see that huge red mark on the minimap, you have plenty of time to move your units away, just like back in the day when you heard a land mattress fire or a stuka.
/Sarcasm.
+1 for wuff's answer
besides you can just move your units out of the circle once you see that huge red mark on the minimap, you have plenty of time to move your units away, just like back in the day when you heard a land mattress fire or a stuka.
/Sarcasm.
+1 for wuff's answer
22 Feb 2018, 07:45 AM
#11
Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1
No, just no. I prefer to have my easy win button that denies a large part of the map for my opponent. It's also great fun to have the loiter planes attack the enemy while he is in his base, just to add insult to injury.
besides you can just move your units out of the circle once you see that huge red mark on the minimap, you have plenty of time to move your units away, just like back in the day when you heard a land mattress fire or a stuka.
/Sarcasm.
+1 for wuff's answer
The Solution is to make the zone larger
bg /l
22 Feb 2018, 08:19 AM
#12
Posts: 98
Skill planes are cancer and its pretty much a requirement in team games to have AA units on standby to help counter them.
While we are talking about large area denile, zero input, auto targeting abilities, are we gonna consider artillery based ones as well?
Sector arty, scavenge arty (forget its actual name), zeroing arty, close the pocket, covering arty, etc are all pretty much I win the engagement buttons.
Horrible as they are, skill planes can at least be shot down, but these abilities require the player to get the hell out of dodge, forcing you to loose valuable ground.
While we are talking about large area denile, zero input, auto targeting abilities, are we gonna consider artillery based ones as well?
Sector arty, scavenge arty (forget its actual name), zeroing arty, close the pocket, covering arty, etc are all pretty much I win the engagement buttons.
Horrible as they are, skill planes can at least be shot down, but these abilities require the player to get the hell out of dodge, forcing you to loose valuable ground.
Please bear in mind that I only play team game modes.
22 Feb 2018, 08:22 AM
#13
Posts: 587
"Just move out of the area"
/sarcasm
/sarcasm
Being bad at the game isn't something balance patches can fix.
22 Feb 2018, 08:25 AM
#14
Posts: 98
"Just move out of the area"
/sarcasm
"Just hold on to your tin helmet."
/sarcasm
Please bear in mind that I only play team game modes.
22 Feb 2018, 08:30 AM
#15
Posts: 587
"Just hold on to your tin helmet."
/sarcasm
"Just beat the enemy before he can deploy the planes"
/sarcasm
Being bad at the game isn't something balance patches can fix.
22 Feb 2018, 08:31 AM
#16
Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1
"Just beat the enemy before he can deploy the planes"
/sarcasm
Smoke and Flank the planes l2p
bg /l
22 Feb 2018, 08:33 AM
#17
Posts: 264
22 Feb 2018, 09:00 AM
#18
9 
Posts: 1194 | Subs: 29
Single passes are not without their issues either being strong close to the edge and completely useless in the middle of large maps. Probably better to nerf them a bit and leave as is.
Dedicated AA units (except the flakpanzer) are actually very good at shooting them down now.
Dedicated AA units (except the flakpanzer) are actually very good at shooting them down now.
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22 Feb 2018, 09:35 AM
#19
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
Please please please just remove skill planes from the game.
COH2 would be 10x better without this cancer.
COH2 would be 10x better without this cancer.
22 Feb 2018, 09:48 AM
#20
Posts: 474
Reading this thread makes me sad. Not that don't agree with the complaint, it's just that it seems like it's impossible to have a game that is both competitively balanced and fun at the same time. 
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