Recon support opinion

So, this is 100% just my opinion, but is also a balance suggestion. However, I want to see if others believe the same or not at all. Please, let's try to keep it civil.

I really love recon support company, but basically I feel that all the callin units it has come exactly 1 cp too late to serve properly. I think that due to the high volume of somewhat redundant units, it's sort of supposed to be one of those overall strategy/army composition-changing commanders, but can't really serve that way. Why should I get paths when me trying to get paths handicaps my early game because I have to build less infantry or handicaps my mid game because all I have is ludicrous amounts of infantry? Why should I get paras and an atg when they come too late to counter lights and rifles serve as good anti infantry anyway? Why should I get a greyhound when I already have enough fuel to tech to major and my opponent is going to have a medium tank out soon? Of course all those questions are slight exaggerations but in essence, the truth as well. All the units the commander has work really well together, but it's a shame to not really be able to use all of them in a manner that doesn't handicap your overall strategy to an extent, basically because they come too late to not be redundant to units that are a necessity if you don't want to fall behind?

I think if paths were 0 cp then it would be easy to work them into a build without feeling like you are sacrificing field presence in the early game. I feel that that's the most needed and best balanced change to the commander. I would say this one is pretty balanced, as they don't have all the same utilities of a rifle or rear echelon squad, and are more expensive and fragile than a rifle squad, meaning you'd have to take care of them. If this was the case, the camo would probably be best locked behind 1 cp because no one else gets camo that early in the game.

I think if paras were 3 cp it would mean that the at gun would actually come quick enough to counter lights, and wouldn't be terribly unbalanced since most elite infantry arrive at 3 cp, and access to the at gun via captain tier is also similarly timed.

The greyhound seems to me to be reasonably balanced at 4 cp, making it come slightly later than comparable vehicles (luchs, t70, stuart(?)) but still able to be a worthy purchase over just rushing a sherman, and by 4 cp counters to it are still abundantly available to both axis factions anyway.

I think it would make the commander a lot more playable and it feels a little like it's not really able to be utilized to its fullest right now, but that's just my opinion.

I wholeheartedly agree with the pathfinders, So long as the Artillery is behind a cp requirement much like the Jeep in mechanized. This could also benefit airborne greatly and give another non-rifle option for initial builds.

They are not a rifle squad replacement so I think its fine if they come at 0, Mabye put them on delay like the Jeep and ostruppen as well, but at 0 cp.

The paratroopers are debatable, I think they are a tad late to counter light tanks especially considering USF gets the lowest CPS of all factions(no base buildings, though ig brits are the same). 3 cps could be fair but 4 could also be fair.

The greyhound is meant to be delayed because it is the best "light tank". You kind of need a puma to really counter them and that comes at 5 cps. It will come late in team games for sure though.

I wholeheartedly agree with the pathfinders, So long as the Artillery is behind a cp requirement much like the Jeep in mechanized. This could also benefit airborne greatly and give another non-rifle option for initial builds.

They are not a rifle squad replacement so I think its fine if they come at 0, Mabye put them on delay like the Jeep and ostruppen as well, but at 0 cp.

The paratroopers are debatable, I think they are a tad late to counter light tanks especially considering USF gets the lowest CPS of all factions(no base buildings, though ig brits are the same). 3 cps could be fair but 4 could also be fair.

The greyhound is meant to be delayed because it is the best "light tank". You kind of need a puma to really counter them and that comes at 5 cps. It will come late in team games for sure though.

Yeah the greyhound is the one I felt most iffy about.

Pathfinders should come at 0cps.They are still pretty useless as a fighting unit though. I don't think we will see these guys in 1v1, but they are perfect for crewing weapons in team games. The doctrines with pathfinders are really good currently and see lots of use.

Pathfinders should come at 0cps.They are still pretty useless as a fighting unit though. I don't think we will see these guys in 1v1, but they are perfect for crewing weapons in team games. The doctrines with pathfinders are really good currently and see lots of use.

Pathfinder are actually a very good fighting unit if not OP. Try checking some videos on how they should be used.

Pathfinder are actually a very good fighting unit if not OP. Try checking some videos on how they should be used.

Smart players are going to use rifles, 50cals, or paratroopers. It is rare to see pathfinders in competitive builds. I have heard vonivan say they are not worth getting, but I still use them to man 50 cals. Up or op is purely opinion.

Kinda off topic, but I feel like Airborne doc paras should come at 2 cp's since they're supposed to replace mainline infantry anyway.

Pathies are fine at CP1, Airborne Pathies are more combat capable due to having 2 Scoped M1 Garands.

ATG is locked behind CP4 just like the Airborne ATG drop, if you want Paratroopers just go Airbone, you can use Thompsons and (Elite) Bazookas with them.

Greyhound at 4 would be busted.

Recon Support is more than fine.

I use pathfinders mainly for the sight. Vet 1 (i think) for the bonus + camo somewhere can be really useful

Pathfinder are actually a very good fighting unit if not OP. Try checking some videos on how they should be used.

They are actually pretty good fighting units. I still think it'd be balanced at 0 cp however, since they are more fragile, have different utilities, are more expensive to reinforce, and have only four men though. Just like combat engineers, they certainly aren't spammable even though they are a good unit, and really just fill a different role than rifles without being "better" IMO.

For 210 250 manpower the unit is dirt cheap.

Garand Sniper Rifle in combination with Bars, hmgs or mortars can become really cancerous and players should not be allowed to have many of them in the field.

For 210 manpower the unit is dirt cheap.

Garand Sniper Rifle in combination with Bars, hmgs or mortars can become really cancerous and players should not be allowed to have many of them in the field.

Aren't I and R pathfinders 250? Also they cost as much as grens to reinforce, which is definitely justified

Aren't I and R pathfinders 250? Also they cost as much as grens to reinforce, which is definitely justified

Correct, they costed 210 MP when they were 3 man without the Sniper model, I still prefer Airborne Pathfinders myself.

Wait a min is this the company that had the M8greyhound with the canister shot?

0 CP for pathfinder (goodluck with volk ) if you gonna use doctries unit for main line might as well be able to use them from the start as support infantry or mix
3cp on AT gun hmmm idk what time i usually got my luchs so not sure if this is good or bad.But considering it is a global drop.Not sure how early you should get it.

Personally the only gripe i have with Recon is how Munitions heavy it is. It's really hard to fully utilize both combat group and greyhound to full extent because upgrades for both and canister shot uses most if not all of your munitions for just 2 units. Almost wish the combat group was like 20 fuel or something else instead of munitions.

I was toying around with this since Para's are my favourite unit. It definitely feels like you're playing one of the early WFA patches, ie. you're actively choosing to have all the flaws of the USF (no indirect fire/siege, shaky AT options) and if you want Para's this seems like a better option than the actual AB Coy

But! I digress, since you do lack the new fun tools, I found you actually have to build around the paths for the advantage you get in vision, and the only somewhat reliable artillery. This meant changing the early game capping order a little, maybe taking 2 rifles hunting trying to farm CP's and taking the economy hit, double RE's to backcap didn't work.

Do the IR paths have the snipers? 'cos they seem to hold their own in combat. They remind me of the the old Jaeger squads, particularly with vet. I wish the artillery could still delete an OKW HQ truck, as well, but maybe that's too far.

The mine drop is also more useful than I thought it was going to be, again paired with path vision, I found I could turn games against a turtling player by pushing up against my opponent ever so slightly in a counter attack, then dropping the mines just behind my opponent, either forcing him back into them, or routing his team weapons.

However, using this often (which I felt you had to, particularly in the mid/late game since you lack reliable killing power/indirect fire) + IR arty means no BAR's/Zooks, and worse, no Para upgrades.

The capture territory ability is far more useful as well than I thought at first glance. I usually go Lt, since the cmdr. overlaps well as a lazy version of T2. This means if I'm clever and preserve an M20, or actually bother with the M8, I have an ace up my sleeve for actually harassing, or I have a super tool for the close VP games. The Axis have very little they can do against this, unless they're playing a very fluid, maneuverable game from the off, which probably means they're trying to outflank you which mean's you're in the lead anyways.

Paras however... don't seem all that great :/ and that's the issue. Since this cmdr. lacks the outright killing power of the Calliope or Rifleman 30's, you're looking to Paras to provide some steel on the front line, either as shock troops or stalwart defenders and, even with the ability to reinforce in combat, they really don't hold up well enough. Rangers far exceed their performance. They melt to things like Falls, Obers-- PG's even make them think twice, even with 30cal's which, as we mention are still prohibitively expensive. Adding a .50cal helps, especially since I still don't think Axis expect to get suppressed against the USF, but the midgame with this commander is such a toil, and late game against OKW once they get Vet3 + feels like a real uphill battle, since you're always asking where your squad wipes are coming from. It seems you require your entire force to take down 2 volks.

So, in conclusion, I think you can make things work if you can get a Major and a Sherman + Jackson out in a reasonable time, but you should be doing that anyway using only the core force. This commander doesn't add anything that really stands out as being overtly useful, like Guard Motor or Lightning War, and that's too bad; but the design is solid albeit average, and I think there's a fair amount of character there.