instead of adding a fifth man to grenadier

How about some CoH1 similarities?

Give them a squad leader unit which is different from the other models.
Like an MP40 with pioneer dmg model.

Maybe a T3 or T4 upgrade for them?

That is exactly what I have suggested a good while ago. Even did DPS calculations - the 5th guy with an MP40 (which is very poor) would not change anything about their DPS down to range 10, and even at that range a single MP 40 just helps a bit against Allied infantry for which the closer, the better (expect Brits, but then IS beats Grens in all other ranges and conditions, so its probably not a bad thing).

Despite that the five men Grenadier squad (with a bit of a price increase) would practically solve all the Grens problems, there is still a - albeit faltering - resistance to the idea without any kind of reasonded counter arguement.

The durability of 5 man grenadiers versus small arms fire is significant. The problem is that it snowballs grenadiers, especially with lmg42s, into a roving mass of effective a-move.

Bolt action rifles are typically secondary to how powerful all slot_items are like lmgs, bars, and brens.

In a way it only duplicates existing problems so all factions are equitable in having a problematic, blobbable, mainline infantry.

I have tested 5 man gren squads off and on in various forms for years and I am still not sold on whether it's actually a good idea.

It HAS to come as a global upgrade using fuel, like UKF bolster, but it also would need to come as apart of a larger effort to give factions global, fuel based upgrades.

5 man grens would be a "fix" of sorts for ostheer, but it would solidify a greater design issue, likely forever. Right now ostheer is kind of the last bastion of the coh gameplay that made the franchise famous.

Every other faction has been coalescing into "infantry do everything". Even the redesigned ostheer commanders revolve around using primarily (if not only) infantry it seems.

I still favor recrewing with 2 man squads, and global upgrades that increases vet rate or reduces manpower upkeep via reinforce rate or popcap, or both.

[...]

5 man grens would be a "fix" of sorts for ostheer, but it would solidify a greater design issue, likely forever. Right now ostheer is kind of the last bastion of the coh gameplay that made the franchise famous.

Every other faction has been coalescing into "infantry do everything". Even the redesigned ostheer commanders revolve around using primarily (if not only) infantry it seems.

I still favor recrewing with 2 man squads, and global upgrades that increases vet rate or reduces manpower upkeep via reinforce rate or popcap, or both.

Did I read?:




I mean, it was already noticed from the beginning that infantery and light tanks were softcountering each other and heavier vehicles way more than in CoH1 for example.
5th man Gren Commander like suggested wouldn't really change anything to this.

It wouldn't affect sniper gameplay much since the 5th model has no real DPS but pio damage on short range.
It wouldn't affect any kind of "blob" motivation since it doesn't do anything active as a unit.
It's directly adressing the issue of beeing an easier nade/explosive target to whipe (even tho it wouldn't effect the unit positioning behaviour so... on spot mortar shells and nades while clumping at 1m² around a tree would still be whipe most of the time) and easy to shoot down to make it unable to recrew a crew-weapon, which whole Ost is based around.

The only question is, if this "issue" is really seen as such and is "that much of a problem" that a balance patch should address that, and I guess this is still quite opinion based.

or just stop clumping your units and learn how to engage better.

or just stop clumping your units and learn how to engage better.

Your rank 800 ostheer advice has been noted.

Your rank 800 ostheer advice has been noted.

yes i do, thanks for noting my rank.

The durability of 5 man grenadiers versus small arms fire is significant. The problem is that it snowballs grenadiers, especially with lmg42s, into a roving mass of effective a-move.

Bolt action rifles are typically secondary to how powerful all slot_items are like lmgs, bars, and brens.

In a way it only duplicates existing problems so all factions are equitable in having a problematic, blobbable, mainline infantry.

I have tested 5 man gren squads off and on in various forms for years and I am still not sold on whether it's actually a good idea.

It HAS to come as a global upgrade using fuel, like UKF bolster, but it also would need to come as apart of a larger effort to give factions global, fuel based upgrades.

5 man grens would be a "fix" of sorts for ostheer, but it would solidify a greater design issue, likely forever. Right now ostheer is kind of the last bastion of the coh gameplay that made the franchise famous.

Every other faction has been coalescing into "infantry do everything". Even the redesigned ostheer commanders revolve around using primarily (if not only) infantry it seems.

I still favor recrewing with 2 man squads, and global upgrades that increases vet rate or reduces manpower upkeep via reinforce rate or popcap, or both.

5 men grenadier feels wrong. They are not suppose to have that much model.

a subtle health preserve their visual uniqueness.

5 men grenadier feels wrong. They are not suppose to have that much model.

a subtle health preserve their visual uniqueness.

We're balancing this game on feelings now?
And we're disregarding every negative that comes with said health increase?

Imo lmgs should not be available to non elite squads with more the 4 models.

On the other hand Ostheer need a squad can survive. And there mane way to do that:

1) make the doctrinal g43 upgrade give 5 g43 with a DPS close to m1 allowing a 5 member on the squad and remove it from commanders with access to super heavy tanks.

2) Create 2 separate upgrade for grenadiers.

The lmg as is but with access to normal grenade and a 5 member firing rifle-grenades with a small timer on impact and scatter.

We're balancing this game on feelings now?
And we're disregarding every negative that comes with said health increase?

yes.

german grenadier fighting with a numerical disadvantage against allies is very much part of their identity, as as the superior fighting capability of the tiger and panther. It's part of their identity.

(Volks and ost being different since they were "bottom of the barrel" recruit.)