Relic close to shutting down - not profitable

I'm old enough to remember when Relic shut down in 2013 and we were all laid off following the release of CoH2. Oh wait, Relic didn't close then as predicted by the impeccable forum science? Man, I guess I shouldn't have stopped going into work if that's the case. I thought SEGA had shut us down!

I'm old enough to remember when Relic shut down in 2013 and we were all laid off following the release of CoH2. Oh wait, Relic didn't close then as predicted by the impeccable forum science? Man, I guess I shouldn't have stopped going into work if that's the case. I thought SEGA had shut us down!

Ouw man that was a first class burn

I'm old enough to remember when Relic shut down in 2013 and we were all laid off following the release of CoH2. Oh wait, Relic didn't close then as predicted by the impeccable forum science? Man, I guess I shouldn't have stopped going into work if that's the case. I thought SEGA had shut us down!

If we look at games and support after 2013, i feel relic are close to dead, virgule. You have talant to make games, but have 0 knowledge how support them.

If we look at games and support after 2013, i feel relic are close to dead, virgule. You have talant to make games, but have 0 knowledge how support them.

Funny thing is, that Noun just roasted people like you are into oblivion and you just mindlessly take the bait. Carful brother

Ouw man that was a first class burn

These threads happen. Not just here, and not just for Relic.

I worked on EASPORTS NHL for a year between Relic stints and people were sure that 2K was going to start making hockey games again and EA would shut it down and just focus on FIFA and MADDEN. That was 2012, and they're still making NHL games in Burnaby.

I have no idea what's the situation at Relic. I don't think the evidence presented is proof that they're going away, or one game from closing. But then again game studios close for a bunch of different reasons often without warning. I mean I was at THQ and they invested all their money in a Hollywood director who never made a game, and UDraw tablets and then had to close a bunch of studios because they suddenly had no money for some reason.

Heck we just saw EA close a studio staffed with incredibly talented people working on a much anticipated Star Wars game that never came out. So who knows. That's one of the shitty parts of working in the game industry, there's not the sense of job stability that there is in say dentistry. (Also oddly more biting in game development).

But if I, a guy who worked there for 4 years (in two separate stints) can't really guess what the future holds (even though I know people there, work in the same city and so on) then dude from CA who edited videos for a bit certainly isn't your source for inside information. Sure he's a nice guy, but just like I wouldn't expect to be the authority on what's up with CA, he's probably not your go-to guy for Relic.

The only real evidence in this thread either way is that moving to a new studio is expensive and time consuming. If SEGA had plans to shut down Relic at this point, they'd probably just do their best to keep them where they are. Moving likely means they see a long term future with the studio in Vancouver.

Could that change? Sure. SEGA could invest heavily in UDraw tablets. Weirder things have happened.

And look I get it. The game industry is complicated and hard to understand even from the inside, so on the outside with the bits of information you're able to glean it's natural that you put it together into a narrative that supports what you probably kind of already assumed or wanted to be true. It's the way we as humans work, we're pattern recognition machines.


Edit: Avoiding the double post. Also added "likely" to a sentence since I'm not able to draw a definitive conclusion.

If we look at games and support after 2013, i feel relic are close to dead, virgule. You have talant to make games, but have 0 knowledge how support them.

I have never claimed to have talent, so stop libelling me.

*snipping this to avoid lengthy answer*

Thank you for the insight! This is a really interesting post and I am glad you provided this information as a (former) insider

Who know's whats going on, all I can tell is that their last game was utter shite.

I liked DoW2 and CoH2 on launch but DoW3 was total garbage on launch and so far it appears they are just leaving it to croak, very uncharacteristic of them. I hope they learn lessons from it.

Thank you for the insight! This is a really interesting post and I am glad you provided this information as a (former) insider

No worries. Now like some kind of crazy surfer chasing the high of a crisp fresh crunchy waves, I'm off. I'll return one day when you least want me to expect it.

No worries. Now like some kind of crazy surfer chasing the high of a crisp fresh crunchy waves, I'm off. I'll return one day when you least want me to expect it.

AOE4 will be very good and COH3 will be great, you will see (hope very soon).
Relic will go down to history as one of the greatest (if not the greatest) RTS Studios ever

this burns worse in my eyes than katitofs comments did

"The RTS and Strategy genre is pretty much dead and unprofitable"

Then he proceeds to list very popular and profitable RTS'es.... Rts isnt dead, there just aren't many good ones that are coming out these days. So it would seem that it is dead.

The only real evidence in this thread either way is that moving to a new studio is expensive and time consuming. If SEGA had plans to shut down Relic at this point, they'd probably just do their best to keep them where they are. Moving likely means they see a long term future with the studio in Vancouver.

We have more information to discuss and speculate than that.

• We have the news about lead employees leaving the studio.
• We have the total number of Relic employees
• We have full statistics of DoW3 sales/playerbase

The CoH2's 5-year plan got cut short, the game isn't even 5 years old, but the last content patch was 2 years ago. Dawn of War 3 was build to allow Elite Unit and Faction expansions, but it barely got any extra content because there are no players left, freaking Soulstorm has more players...

Game studios don't just burst out of nowhere. If the studio releases profitable products - it is going to survive. Some studios have extra-buffers to survive one or two commercial failures, others bankrupt/close after one.

In 2017 we had:
• Gigantic killing Motiga
• Hob killing Runic Games
• Eve Valkyrie killing CCP VR studios
• Rigs killing Sony Cambridge
• ME:A forcing Bioware Montreal to restructure

We might never know exactly why Visceral was closed: differences in the market trends, EA wanting a different game, Visceral being behind the schedule, San-Francisco being too expensive to operate in etc. But there has to be a reason, no company would fund a project just to randomly cancel it halfway through.

I would like to hear studios which were profitable and successful closing abruptly. My favorite all-time game is Battleforge, but I can accept the fact it was unsuccessful commercially and therefore prompted the studio's shutdown eventually.

Relic is working on AoE4 and CoH3, the latter being in the planning or early stages of production. It doesn't feel like AoE4 is going to launch this year, it should be a 2019 game. We got surveys about CoH3's direction last year, how far in development can it be?

My question is what happens if AOE4 fails commercially? Can Sega justify operating Relic after two failures in the row?

These threads happen. Not just here, and not just for Relic.

I worked on EASPORTS NHL for a year between Relic stints and people were sure that 2K was going to start making hockey games again and EA would shut it down and just focus on FIFA and MADDEN. That was 2012, and they're still making NHL games in Burnaby.

I have no idea what's the situation at Relic. I don't think the evidence presented is proof that they're going away, or one game from closing. But then again game studios close for a bunch of different reasons often without warning. I mean I was at THQ and they invested all their money in a Hollywood director who never made a game, and UDraw tablets and then had to close a bunch of studios because they suddenly had no money for some reason.

Heck we just saw EA close a studio staffed with incredibly talented people working on a much anticipated Star Wars game that never came out. So who knows. That's one of the shitty parts of working in the game industry, there's not the sense of job stability that there is in say dentistry. (Also oddly more biting in game development).

But if I, a guy who worked there for 4 years (in two separate stints) can't really guess what the future holds (even though I know people there, work in the same city and so on) then dude from CA who edited videos for a bit certainly isn't your source for inside information. Sure he's a nice guy, but just like I wouldn't expect to be the authority on what's up with CA, he's probably not your go-to guy for Relic.

The only real evidence in this thread either way is that moving to a new studio is expensive and time consuming. If SEGA had plans to shut down Relic at this point, they'd probably just do their best to keep them where they are. Moving likely means they see a long term future with the studio in Vancouver.

Could that change? Sure. SEGA could invest heavily in UDraw tablets. Weirder things have happened.

And look I get it. The game industry is complicated and hard to understand even from the inside, so on the outside with the bits of information you're able to glean it's natural that you put it together into a narrative that supports what you probably kind of already assumed or wanted to be true. It's the way we as humans work, we're pattern recognition machines.


Edit: Avoiding the double post. Also added "likely" to a sentence since I'm not able to draw a definitive conclusion.



I have never claimed to have talent, so stop libelling me.

Noun, I want ask you, you worked at relic also as community manager on dow, you may say what happen to dow 3, why it has so many mistakes, and why you name not included in dow 3 special thanks credits? Just what to know slighty how looks like dow 3 in teh end of 2014,

Noun, I want ask you, you worked at relic also as community manager on dow, you may say what happen to dow 3, why it has so many mistakes, and why you name not included in dow 3 special thanks credits? Just what to know slighty how looks like dow 3 in teh end of 2014,

He quit his job as community manager at Relic a few years ago. He wasn't even remotely related with DoW3 as far as I know

"The RTS and Strategy genre is pretty much dead and unprofitable"

Then he proceeds to list very popular and profitable RTS'es.... Rts isnt dead, there just aren't many good ones that are coming out these days. So it would seem that it is dead.

Would it be that competitive/PvP RTS are pretty much "dead" a better phrase ? Take a look at the titles released on the last 5-10 years and now compare it to some strategy games such as Total War, Civ, HoI, Stellaris.

SC2: commander mode is more popular that the sum of all PvP players.
Paradox games: all have 10K avg people and above peaking at 20K
Civ 6: 30K peaking at 50K
Total WH: 15K avg

The recent "They are billions" has around 11K avg and 22K peak players.

Now take a look at: Grey goo, Cossacks, Sudden strike, Steel Division, Halo Wars, Blitzkrieg, Planetary Annihilation, DoW 2/3, Wargames and whatever other title you might think of. CoH2, AoE 2 HD and SC are pretty much the only exponents of the genre with a more or less memorable remark on Men of War which retains it's really niche public.

MoW's individual unit control is what makes that game rather unique as far as gameplay goes. I've wanted to take individual control of RTS units since, like, Warcraft was an RTS series.

And that's really what sets games in general, not just RTS, apart from each other: unique gameplay components.

Cover, suppression, armor/penetration really set CoH apart from other RTS as well.

I don't think the evidence presented is proof that they're going away, or one game from closing.

True, but the more interesting takeaway from the evidence was the bit about "cultural issues" at Relic. Can you comment on that? (if you are allowed to )

True, but the more interesting takeaway from the evidence was the bit about "cultural issues" at Relic. Can you comment on that? (if you are allowed to )

Nah. I haven’t been there in years, wouldn’t want to comment on that.

What I will say is that I loved working with the teams there. I’m friends with loads of people from my Relic days. I hang out with Thunder still and we haven’t worked together in like six years. There’s people like Greg Wilson who if they called me to help them bury a body... well I would call the cops because that’s totally illegal. But who despite narcing on to the popo, I really love and am forever grateful to.

Noun, I want ask you, you worked at relic also as community manager on dow, you may say what happen to dow 3, why it has so many mistakes, and why you name not included in dow 3 special thanks credits? Just what to know slighty how looks like dow 3 in teh end of 2014,

Nah. I was there for early development and not much else. I’m not even going to agree to the idea that DoW3 isn’t good. I haven’t played it enough to form a strong opinion and even if I did shitting on someone else’s game is not classy. You all can because you’re fans and customers, but I’m a professional in the same industry and I stopped doing that even for games I hate by companies that I have never worked for.

Any game I play I could list of 5 things I would do differently but there’s probably good reasons for not doing them.

We have more information to discuss and speculate than...

My question is what happens if AOE4 fails commercially? Can Sega justify operating Relic after two failures in the row?

You have an incomplete set of data points, at best. What about US visa law, government support, International currency rates, future projects, Brexit... and so on. All those are at play if a publisher is reviewing what studios they want to own and where.

But it’s not my circus and not my monkeys. If you (by you I mean the fan base as a whole) doomsay long enough maybe you’ll be right one day. Or maybe Relic will outlive us all and ascend to the throne as a sentient God Emperor.

Damned if I know.

Snip

Rather than focusing on Relic or it's latest titles, do you have any opinion/forecast on the current situation of "classic" PvP RTS in general ?

Should "old school" consumers adapt their expectations/hopes to the current reality or is it just a matter of some developer been able to release a great game?

The 90s gave birth to practically all of the current great sagas and the columns of the RTS genre. C&C (Red Alert/Tiberium), WC, AoE, Total Annihilation, Homeworld, etc. 2000s consolidated some concepts while giving us some fresh jewels with Shogun Total War, CoH or the legendary WC3. But since 2010 onwards (including SC2), it feels like every single game hasn't been able to really be a game "history" changer. There has been great titles, but what i see from fans is that they expected so much more. It feels like we are on a downfall.

If i missed mentioning a "relevant" game, it's due to ignorance or the wiki not naming it. NOTE for others reading: reminder this is with RTS focused or at least having the PvP aspect, been one of it's main deals. Things like Anno, Civ, Hearts of Iron or even the Total war games (with the exclusion of Total war arena) would fall out of this category.
That been said, let's take a look at the names and each one can take it's own conclusions.

SC2 WoL, C&C 4 TT, Supreme Com 2, DoW2, Ruse, Men of War, SC2 HoTs, Planetary Annihilation, CoH2, MoW 2, Grey Goo, HW remaster, SC2 LotV, Blitzkrieg 3, Cossacks 3, HW Desert of K, Halo Wars 2, DoW3, Steel Division, Sudden Strike 4.

On the foreseeable future, there's only 3 things that might caught my attention. CoH3, AoE4 and Blizzard waking up and deciding to work on WC4 (which as this point, is like expecting Valve to be doing something about HL3). I don't see any titles breaking the 2/4 million copies barrier and/or having a healthy player base.

Rather than focusing on Relic or it's latest titles, do you have any opinion/forecast on the current situation of "classic" PvP RTS in general ?

Not one that's any better than what the people here could give. I've been out of the RTS game since leaving Relic. After 4ish years of living and breathing those types of games I've been playing different types of games. My guess is that there's people here who are much more informed on the state of RTS than I am.

The rest of your questions kind of get the same answer. Sorry. I don't want to get too far out over my skis pontificating about RTS and the future of strategy games.