Has anyone seen the latest casts from Rogers and pounder as well as Imperial Dane? In Imperials game there was no su85 featured and it played like coh of old and in the RNP it was super clear su85 is blatantly op.
Anyone see this? Thoughts?
Game balanced without su85
12 Aug 2013, 11:07 AM
#1
Posts: 331
12 Aug 2013, 11:30 AM
#2
Posts: 978
I saw some replays of Imperial Dane. I have to say there was some nice T-34 usage. The cool thing was that this resulted in a lot of German players actually using StuGs effectively.
But then all the games I play end up in Sniperspam combined with Su-85s. Why would anybody ignore an I-win-button?
Still the T-34 needs to be a bit more attractive and the Su-85 needs its goddamn nerf. I lost 2 Panthers (1 with vet1)to two Su-85s. There was no option than a frontal assault and I speeded one up getting behind one Su-85. The time they arrived one Panther was almost down and exploded within 2 seconds. The second one got killed 10 seconds later. No Su-85 was lost... time to ragequit.
But then all the games I play end up in Sniperspam combined with Su-85s. Why would anybody ignore an I-win-button?
Still the T-34 needs to be a bit more attractive and the Su-85 needs its goddamn nerf. I lost 2 Panthers (1 with vet1)to two Su-85s. There was no option than a frontal assault and I speeded one up getting behind one Su-85. The time they arrived one Panther was almost down and exploded within 2 seconds. The second one got killed 10 seconds later. No Su-85 was lost... time to ragequit.
12 Aug 2013, 11:58 AM
#3
Posts: 331
I saw some replays of Imperial Dane. I have to say there was some nice T-34 usage. The cool thing was that this resulted in a lot of German players actually using StuGs effectively.
But then all the games I play end up in Sniperspam combined with Su-85s. Why would anybody ignore an I-win-button?
Still the T-34 needs to be a bit more attractive and the Su-85 needs its goddamn nerf. I lost 2 Panthers (1 with vet1)to two Su-85s. There was no option than a frontal assault and I speeded one up getting behind one Su-85. The time they arrived one Panther was almost down and exploded within 2 seconds. The second one got killed 10 seconds later. No Su-85 was lost... time to ragequit.
I have to say, in many situations su85 is uncounterable IMO. Especially with how the maps are laid out.
12 Aug 2013, 12:24 PM
#4
Posts: 480
Depends a lot on the map - Langreskaya in particular is kind of tricky without snipers and SU-85s (hard to push off MGs fast enough to keep up on fuel then lots of open spaces which make it quite hard to compete with German armour). Been having both fun and success with a Kholodny Ferma and Pripyat Winter 2/3scripts -> T2 -> T3 -> KV-8 start.
Minsk Pocket seems like the most op map for SU-85s and snipers/sniper cars right now.
The way that an SU-85 can destroy a P-IV frontally before a P-IV can destroy an SU-85 from the rear makes flanking attempts with German armour incredibly risky and unrewarding, given the usual arrival of a second SU-85 not long after the second P-IV. Additionally, the SU-85/StuG dynamic just isn't there, which is some of the reason noone uses StuGs much. This is aside from the infantry/PAK sniping, blues brothers reversing and so on.
Minsk Pocket seems like the most op map for SU-85s and snipers/sniper cars right now.
The way that an SU-85 can destroy a P-IV frontally before a P-IV can destroy an SU-85 from the rear makes flanking attempts with German armour incredibly risky and unrewarding, given the usual arrival of a second SU-85 not long after the second P-IV. Additionally, the SU-85/StuG dynamic just isn't there, which is some of the reason noone uses StuGs much. This is aside from the infantry/PAK sniping, blues brothers reversing and so on.
12 Aug 2013, 12:39 PM
#5
17 
Posts: 2838 | Subs: 3
12 Aug 2013, 12:59 PM
#6
Posts: 168
Yes it is ... played a few games where the Russian players used T70 and T34's (without ram) and no SU85's. It was an epic battle and first time in a long time where the game seemed fun without those exploit su85's. Panzer 4's are nerfed and its time the Su85 definitely gets one.
I hope devs are reading this and plan to fix the SU85's to make this game a little more interesting.
I hope devs are reading this and plan to fix the SU85's to make this game a little more interesting.
12 Aug 2013, 13:03 PM
#7
Posts: 168
I have to say, in many situations su85 is uncounterable IMO. Especially with how the maps are laid out.
completely agree ... specially on maps like city 17 su85 is unflankable.
12 Aug 2013, 14:23 PM
#8
Posts: 148
+1
The SU85 needs a nerf. A cost increase and range decrease (or increase range of other tanks, which would be preferable).
T34 RAM needs to be fixed or removed and its anti-tank abilities buffed.
The game would be much more balanced that way.
The SU85 needs a nerf. A cost increase and range decrease (or increase range of other tanks, which would be preferable).
T34 RAM needs to be fixed or removed and its anti-tank abilities buffed.
The game would be much more balanced that way.
12 Aug 2013, 14:33 PM
#9
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedSaw those matches too, and completely agree.
My suggestion is:
SU85:
-SU85 Cone makes the unit immobile.
OR
-SU85 Cone reduces speed by 1.5.
T34/76:
-Make T34/76 upgunnable to T34/85 maingun for 100 Muni. May need an AI nerf though.
-Reduce MP/Fuel/Muni cost on Doctrinal T34/85 double call-in to below the cost of two native upgunned T34s. Meaning the Doctrine rewards the massive resource pool required, by making it cheaper overall than buying them nominally.
My suggestion is:
SU85:
-SU85 Cone makes the unit immobile.
OR
-SU85 Cone reduces speed by 1.5.
T34/76:
-Make T34/76 upgunnable to T34/85 maingun for 100 Muni. May need an AI nerf though.
-Reduce MP/Fuel/Muni cost on Doctrinal T34/85 double call-in to below the cost of two native upgunned T34s. Meaning the Doctrine rewards the massive resource pool required, by making it cheaper overall than buying them nominally.
12 Aug 2013, 16:02 PM
#10
Posts: 896
Has anyone seen the latest casts from Rogers and pounder as well as Imperial Dane? In Imperials game there was no su85 featured and it played like coh of old and in the RNP it was super clear su85 is blatantly op.
Anyone see this? Thoughts?
where can I see this?
12 Aug 2013, 16:12 PM
#11
Posts: 598
can we see links to these games? i'm also curious to how you can effectively use T34s without RAM
12 Aug 2013, 16:15 PM
#12
Posts: 135
I think the biggest problem with the SU-85 right now is how quickly the unit can throw reverse. It makes the unit very difficult and extremely risky to flank.
And yes please to a t34 buff, let's see some actual tank battles on the eastern front.
And yes please to a t34 buff, let's see some actual tank battles on the eastern front.
"The devil is not as terrible as he is painted" - Joseph Stalin, 1941 in reference to the German war machine.
12 Aug 2013, 16:17 PM
#13
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedImperial Dane's Propagandacast:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Propagandacast
Fatalsaint & Tommy's The Frontline Network:
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheFrontlineNetwork
Roger & Pounder's Gaming:
http://www.youtube.com/user/RPGRogers
Atreuh's Casts:
http://www.youtube.com/user/atr3uh
As general reference.
Sorry, but I cba to search out/remember which where the matches without SU85s.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Propagandacast
Fatalsaint & Tommy's The Frontline Network:
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheFrontlineNetwork
Roger & Pounder's Gaming:
http://www.youtube.com/user/RPGRogers
Atreuh's Casts:
http://www.youtube.com/user/atr3uh
As general reference.
Sorry, but I cba to search out/remember which where the matches without SU85s.
12 Aug 2013, 16:20 PM
#14
Posts: 396
It's not about how it's the most effective Anti Infantry tank in the game? The best anti-armor tank in the game? The best ranged weapon in the game?
You think it's because they can back up quickly? Pfffff
You think it's because they can back up quickly? Pfffff
12 Aug 2013, 16:24 PM
#15
Posts: 135
A unit that out ranges your tank and can go the same speed as your tank in reverse is a problem.
And how the heck is it the best anti-infantry tank in the game?
And how the heck is it the best anti-infantry tank in the game?
"The devil is not as terrible as he is painted" - Joseph Stalin, 1941 in reference to the German war machine.
12 Aug 2013, 16:27 PM
#16
Posts: 168
its funny how it regularly manages to snipe shrek squads , pak40's and other support weapons.
Right now its a major combined arms effort to kill ONE su85. The joke is you get a sense of relief when you manage to kill one (like killing an elephant), the only problem is if soviets have at least one fuel or some caches the next one is rolling out since its ultra spammable at 115 fuel.
Panzer 4 with the nerf is nowhere near the threat it used to be. SU85 on the other hand has been untouched.
If you want to see a great joke .... watch a vet2 su85 take on a TIGER. It will maul the tiger so bad its hilarious.
Right now its a major combined arms effort to kill ONE su85. The joke is you get a sense of relief when you manage to kill one (like killing an elephant), the only problem is if soviets have at least one fuel or some caches the next one is rolling out since its ultra spammable at 115 fuel.
Panzer 4 with the nerf is nowhere near the threat it used to be. SU85 on the other hand has been untouched.
If you want to see a great joke .... watch a vet2 su85 take on a TIGER. It will maul the tiger so bad its hilarious.
12 Aug 2013, 16:44 PM
#17
Posts: 396
A unit that out ranges your tank and can go the same speed as your tank in reverse is a problem.
And how the heck is it the best anti-infantry tank in the game?
The guy above me pretty much sums it up.
12 Aug 2013, 17:04 PM
#18
Posts: 3
In regards to the SU-85 sniping PaKs:
It's because of the small scatter of the main gun, this means that while the SU, is aiming for the infantry behind the PaK (which it has a low chance of killing) any shots that miss, may hit the PaK - which is why we sometimes see PaKs getting killed at 3-4 crewmembers alive; it simply destroys the PaK.
It's because of the small scatter of the main gun, this means that while the SU, is aiming for the infantry behind the PaK (which it has a low chance of killing) any shots that miss, may hit the PaK - which is why we sometimes see PaKs getting killed at 3-4 crewmembers alive; it simply destroys the PaK.
13 Aug 2013, 16:14 PM
#19
Posts: 148
Yup. What more can you say. Hopefully this thread and the numerous others concerning the SU85 catches Relics attention.
its funny how it regularly manages to snipe shrek squads , pak40's and other support weapons.
Right now its a major combined arms effort to kill ONE su85. The joke is you get a sense of relief when you manage to kill one (like killing an elephant), the only problem is if soviets have at least one fuel or some caches the next one is rolling out since its ultra spammable at 115 fuel.
Panzer 4 with the nerf is nowhere near the threat it used to be. SU85 on the other hand has been untouched.
If you want to see a great joke .... watch a vet2 su85 take on a TIGER. It will maul the tiger so bad its hilarious.
13 Aug 2013, 16:45 PM
#20
Posts: 50
Yes it is ... played a few games where the Russian players used T70 and T34's (without ram) and no SU85's. It was an epic battle and first time in a long time where the game seemed fun without those exploit su85's. Panzer 4's are nerfed and its time the Su85 definitely gets one.
I hope devs are reading this and plan to fix the SU85's to make this game a little more interesting.
Man every time i see your name in a thread you're always crying about the SU-85,
can you please explain to me how this tank is an "exploit".. learn to flank properly
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