Talk About USF M20 Utility Car

We talk about

<<<<<<< This Thing

This car not have any Major Change since WFA Release
I thing This unit should Rework for Current gameplay

First before Discussion let talk about stats
1 Need LT to unlock unit by 340 manpower 20 fuel Unit with Spotter level Sight (50)
2 Health 240 Front armor 11 Rear 5.5 can use 70 munition for 320 HP and Front 16.5 Rear 8.25
3 Main gun M2HB .50cal dmg 8 acc 0.2/0.475/0.7 with Penetration 1/2/3
4 Special Crew Coming with M9 bazooka
5 Vet bouns This

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My suggestions for improving the M20
1. Remove crew bazooka and reduce Manpower cost
Reason: First introduced in USF Trailer; wow Bail out with bazooka this feature is cool!
Now who uses this Feature? By now we have the weapon racks unlocked. LT tier is easier to play now that the PzII has been fixed and a player can use another unit in place of the crew armed with a bazooka. M20 has a powerful AT mine, place it and lure is a better idea than getting out to use a bazooka.

2. M2HB .50cal rework
Reason: Let's talk about it's Anti Infantry with acc 0.2/0.475/0.75 this pretty good only for flanking some support weapons.
If fighting against Axis Core units mid and near range is too risky to get Damage by a panzerfaust and die.
I Suggest buffing the Far Acc and lower Near acc (not a problem to flank support weapon crew with 1.25 Target size).
Now let's talk about Anti vehicle term with Penetration 1/2/3 (lower than UC with Vickers-K upgrade 2.4/2.5/2.6)
should be Buff for soft countering vehicles like halftracks or scout cars by no more surprise crew bazooka.
IMO 2 ways I think
Buff the Penetration more than 1/2/3 (.50cal HMG have 5/6/7 and mounted Gun for Tank and M20 Variants like M8 Grayhound have 2/3/4 )
Or have a timed ability AP Round like .50cal Hmg It helps counter Flame halftrack Rush chasing retreating Squads some times.
3 Vet bouns change
I no have problem with Vet 1 and Vet 2 Bonus, But Vet 3
+50% penetration, +12.5% weapon range
penetration buff (1.5/3/4.5) is a Useless vet 3 bonus
Hey! Vet 3 hard to reach but give this buff! Why!?
IMO accuracy buff please /o\ and get some Health too

The reason I need this thing reworked is because it's the only USF non-doc spotter and I need eyes for Indirect fire
Thanks everyone who reads this!

Gammar fix Version Credit Mr Vaz

Take the bazooka off. Include armor skirts. Maybe buff health to 340 so that it can survive slightly more than 2 pak shots.

Take the bazooka off. Include armor skirts. Maybe buff health to 340 so that it can survive slightly more than 2 pak shots.

+1

Take the bazooka off. Include armor skirts. Maybe buff health to 340 so that it can survive slightly more than 2 pak shots.

it's a good idea, although i am not pretty sure about removing the bazooka as that would keep it quite vulnerable
to lets say 222 wich comes about a min later.

To compensate you could shuffle its vet so the Vet3 AP rounds are available earlier as a timed ability (and actually made useful).

it's a good idea, although i am not pretty sure about removing the bazooka as that would keep it quite vulnerable
to lets say 222 wich comes about a min later.

If there was something that could melt 222 like nothing with 3-4 AP bullets, something with vet 0 ap 12.7mm rounds...idk something like...50 cal.


No really, ap rounds vet 0 even on m20--->fixed

Upgradable to M8.

I'd be happy with just a mp cost reduction. 340 is so much for such a fragile unit.

What it needs is to be a bit cheaper, the crew can lay mines without the M20, also remove the Bazooka.
Then other changes can be added in, usually Pathfinders remain a better spotter unit as light armor eventually is eclipsed in the battlefield entirely, the .50 cal remains the only reason to go LT IMO.

What it needs is to be a bit cheaper, the crew can lay mines without the M20, also remove the Bazooka.
Then other changes can be added in, usually Pathfinders remain a better spotter unit as light armor eventually is eclipsed in the battlefield entirely, the .50 cal remains the only reason to go LT IMO.

Nope you want m20 100% stun "tank fucked" mine ? You either build one more or keep first m20 alive (just like ostheer doctrinal mine).

AAHT is litterally one of the best AI vehicle in game, and the only one to suppress on the move as well.
It has the upper hand on any axis vehicle but puma and can rng win over luchs with 37mm...you can't be that fanboy and deny how powerful it actually is.

Nope you want m20 100% stun "tank fucked" mine ? You either build one more or keep first m20 alive (just like ostheer doctrinal mine).

AAHT is litterally one of the best AI vehicle in game, and the only one to suppress on the move as well.
It has the upper hand on any axis vehicle but puma and can rng win over luchs with 37mm...you can't be that fanboy and deny how powerful it actually is.

Well I guess that's fair now that REs have some mines to use, else I might put REs in the M20 and let the Crew be safely putting mines everywhere, forever.

I don't like it, the AAHT that is, I only use it for AA if in desperate need a way to kill Pin Planes.

I advocated for a long time zook removal and stocj armored skirts to increase m20 survivability, but something as that would make m20 a must and OP, it would still fullfill its main role from the grave.

Well I guess that's fair now that REs have some mines to use, else I might put REs in the M20 and let the Crew be safely putting mines everywhere, forever.

I don't like it, the AAHT that is, I only use it for AA if in desperate need a way to kill Pin Planes.

Yep, at the end it would fullfill its mine laying role from the grave.


So you simply don't like it ?
Why ? It has good damage and suppression.
Is it because it fires from back ?

Try using major recon as your non-doc spotter

Try using major recon as your non-doc spotter

but not form early Sir

ok thank for advice

tank fucked, lmao! I'm so glad no one has ever laid those for me. When I play axis I rarely run over mines. I've never had to try and stage one of these great rescues I put some my opponents through (usually it involves them going through further losses trying to rescue the tank).

I would build USF M20 it if:

1) Cost less MP
2) M20 got skirts by default
3) Would have 5 popcap instead of 8

I would build USF M20 it if:

1) Cost less MP
2) M20 got skirts by default
3) Would have 5 popcap instead of 8

Here, I don't have anything against M20 it just that those guys are way too MP-heavy for me, I would prefer increased fuel cost for less MP, high MP low fuel unit with zero late-game scaling means you must always yolo this guy around and maybe get a wipe or 2 to return the investment because your capping power is shit later.

Here, I don't have anything against M20 it just that those guys are way too MP-heavy for me, I would prefer increased fuel cost for less MP, high MP low fuel unit with zero late-game scaling means you must always yolo this guy around and maybe get a wipe or 2 to return the investment because your capping power is shit later.

While I might agree with you on what should be changed, it sounds like you use the m20 wrong. Zero late-game scaling? How? Have you ever had a King Tiger run over a well placed m6? It just sits there, unable to do anything. Then an army of repair squads comes over. Combined with a priest, this is just the best thing ever. It just sits there! I once kept a panzerIV alive, just so I could constantly kill the repair squads that came over. I killed off like 5 squads! People are more risky with tank dives the later it goes into a game. Plus the vet1 sight bonus with trackless tanks around? How does this not scale? It shoots planes down too! I just don't get where you are coming from. If you want to use this guy just to point and click infantry targets and win, then it's just disappointment, but there are so many better advantages. It's a support unit, not really a main fighter.

The problem with the M20 is that it's roles are kind of all over the place. A contradictory unit if you will.

Most people use it as a MP bleeding tool, a shock unit which is why it gets upgraded with its armored skirts. Then you figure it has a bazooka to deter light armored vehicles and you are rewarded for bailing out in the nick of time.

But then the role of the unit is supposed to be a scout car? 340 MP for a scouting unit is insane. It's supposed to place mines, but the armored skirts cost an arm and a leg in muni. So if you use it to place mines all day you aren't getting any value for all the MP you spent. The M8 mines are also expensive so you bought a unit to specifically place mines that are also expensive.

I guess the best thing to do would be to make it piss poor unit at 200-240 mp that is only good for scouting and placing mines. Then the armored skirts costs like 100 MP, 80 Muni ect and gives it it's really good gun. So that way you can decide if you want the shock unit or the support unit.

I guess the best thing to do would be to make it piss poor unit at 200-240 mp that is only good for scouting and placing mines. Then the armored skirts costs like 100 MP, 80 Muni ect and gives it it's really good gun. So that way you can decide if you want the shock unit or the support unit.

Pls somebody do vodoo to mod team so they make such change.