[PERSONAL BALANCED MOD]HOI BALANCE MOD BETA

Posts: 34

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Hello everyone,we want to publish a balanced mod.Until now this mod is close to the final version.

Welcome to make a valuable opinion!And it is hoped that officials can refer to some of our ideas in the next balance patch.

This work still needs further balance testing so as to make sure that the changes have achieved the desired effect.

I will add more details about this mod later,Thank you again!

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VS

Lightman

-HOI-Chess master(象棋大师)

1

HOI Balance Mod Test
by: -HOI-Irons map: Langreskaya

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Patch fixed update!
ALL SOVIET AND Wehrmacht TANK'S DAMAGE AND HIT-POINTS HAS BEEN RETURNED TO THE 80-DAMAGE SYSTEM.

B4 aoe radius increased.

Have fun Playing!

next patch we will consider soviet infantry group and British light artillery in the middle of the game.

We made this patch in order to show up these things:

1.We want to improve the role of tanks in the game by improving some of the damage, although the battle between tanks may be almost unchanged from the previous.The purpose of this change is in the 4V4 race.

2.make all units with equal possibility of appearance.(for example before Penal adjust, few people choose them as their main force)

3.Highlight the main tactics and actual conditions of all camps in the historical period(German tanks made well, high-performance, but expensive,Soviet tanks are more suitable for mass production, but the quality of a single tank worse than the German...)

History patch update:

1.3
Now Wehrmacht and Soviet pioneer/engineer can spend 150mp 60m to bulid a repair station(needs 6 command points)

strum-pioneer repair ability increase after vet_2(more than before)

1.2
Grenadiers: now needs 260 manpower, accuracy changed to 0.91,40% reinforce cost percentage.

Panzer II luchs now needs 320mp and 75 fuel, 60s to summom.

MG34 hmg supression increase to 0.00015.

Oberkommando West is a little weak in the middle of the game, we change his purpose is not to make this camp too extreme.

ISG: now have 4 aoe circle radius

GrW 34 8cm Light Mortar enabled in Oberkommando West Command Headquarters, need repair engineers upgrade.

1.1
Wehrmacht:

Elephant 88mm anti-tank gun danage decrease from 340 to 300.

new ability are preparing for this gun(like jagtiger's), we are discussing.

PanzerGrenadiers: we found these changes do not meet our expectations.so.....

PanzerGrenadiers now back to Leichte Mechanized Kompanie,and stg44 have been returned.

new update: 60munitions get scope, give weapons more accuraty.

1.0
Wehrmacht:

We think Grenadiers are so weak in combat, so we want to add squad survivability,but increase manpower cost.

Grenadiers: now needs 260 manpower, accuracy changed to 0.85.

PanzerGrenadiers as great infantry,with anti-infantry and vehicle weapon,but high cost.So we want to them give more chance to show up, and more accurate positioning.

PanzerGrenadiers: now avaliable in Infanterie Kompanie. needs 320 manpower, 40% reinforce cost percentage.

Initial state: 4x kar98k, can be upgrade 4x stg44(100 munitions) or 2xpanzershreck(120m)after finish upgrade battle phase 2.

Leichte Mechanized Kompanie:

The vehicle at this stage is so far so good at the moment,but we still wish armored car sdkfz 222 have better performance in anti-infantry.

SdKfz 222 Armored Car: now need 250 manpower and 40 fuel,with better coaxial mg.

We also want Sdkfz 250/7 half-track join in Leichte Mechanized Kompanie, but it is currently disabled. What about your opinion?

Support Armor Korps:

The units of this stage are usually not very prominent in the later period.They have no more effective means to deal with allied forces.It's time to strengthen them.

StuG 3 G: now need 350mp,100fuel, weapon range increase from 50 to 60.

Panzer IV: 420mp and 120 fuel. armor/rear armor 200/90 and 640 hitpoints,get additional 80 hitpoints after veterency 3.

75mm tank gun: damage 170, penetration far/mid/near 125/130/135

Heavy Panzer Korps:

Panzer V need 560mp,200fuel

armor/rear armor: 320/110

Hitpoints:800,get additional 120 hitpoints after veterency 3

panzer v 75mm tankgun: 180 damage,penetration far/mid/near 220/240/260

aoe radius:2.5

Halftrack incendiary mortar barrage now needs 30 munitions with 3 shots.

Tiger:

armor/rear armor 300/140 hitpoints 1050

88mm tankgun: 200 damage, penetration 220/240/260, reload 5.3-4.7

Tiger Ace:

hitpoints increase to 1200.

Elefhant 88mm gun: damage 340.

Soviet:

The Soviet army is still strong in this version,But as his opponents were strengthened, we think the red army also needed some small gifts.

M1910 MAXIN HMG: now needs 250mp, setup time duration from 3 to 2.

M5 Halftrack quad .50 M2HB: suppression amout:0.0007

t70 45mm tankgun: damage 60, penetration 40/45/50 reload 3-2.5

t34-76: needs 340mp 90fuel, armor 155/75 660 hitpoints

t34-85: needs 440mp 145fuel, armor 170/85 820 hitpoints

su85: needs 400mp 145fuel,armor 160/75 680 hitpoints

su85 85mm anti-tank gun: 165 damage, penetration 240/250/260 4.5s reload

KV1: needs 620mp 100fuel.320/240 armor, 700 hitpoints

kv1 76mm tankgun: 4 aoe radius circle,coaxial mg damage increase to 8.

IS2:640mp and 230 fuel. armor 375/140 armor, 1100 hitpoints

is2 122mm tankgun: 180 damage, 4.5 aoe circle radius, 0.2/0.25/0.3 supression,8.5-8.1 reload times.

ISU-152:now have only 1 152mm howitzer gun, ability not changed.

152mm howitzer gun: penetration 210/230/250, 6.5 aoe cirle radius,0.25/0.3/0.35 supression 10-8 reload times.

B4 is coming back!: 640 damage,12 aoe circle radius.

Oberkommando West

Volkgrenadiers is no advantage in the battle with the infantry, even though as time goes on, obersoldaten will join the battle,but we still want to take care of them.

volksgrenadier mp44 increase damage.

assault pioneer combat upgrade now needs 60 munitions.

Jager light reacon infantry: now needs 400mp with 4x g43.

fallschirmjager now get new ability: assault ambush(likes stromtrooper)

panzerfusilier initial received accuracy now become 0.95

halftrack 251 ir searchlight now needs 150mp/5fuel.

panzer v g needs 500mp/210 fuel, 325/130 armor, 860 hitpoints.

panzer v command: 330/130 armor, 900 hitpoints.

panzer v 75mm tankgun: increase aoe damage(likes Wehrmacht)

strumtiger: 540mp/165 fuel, 240/120 armor, 1300 hitpoints.

strumtiger 380mm rocket launcher: 640 damage,12 aoe cirle radius.

USF:

American infantry usually plays a core role in tactics,We hope riflemen can get more survivability as time goes on.

riflemen received accuracy become 0.75 in 3 veterancy rank.

M5A1 stuart tank gun: 90 damage, 55/60/75 penetration, 2.5 aoe cirle radius.

M8A1 howitzer: somke currently disabled.

M4A3 Sherman: now needs 320mp/100fuel.

M36 Tank Destroyer: 400mp/140fuel, 100/60 armor and 560 hitpoints.

m36 90mm gun: 240 damage, 230/250/270 penetration.

m36 90mm ap gun: 240 damage, 270/300/320 penetration.

T34 calliope: more effective rocket.

P47 Rocket strafe: increase rocket damage.

UKF:

The British tanks are now embarrassed, are we supposed to help them?

cromwell now needs 320mp/110fuel.

comet 77mm tankgun: 50 range distance.

Sherman Firefly anti-tank gun: 240 damage 210/240/260 penetration,11 reload times.

Sherman Firefly rocket: now the first shot have double damage than before.

British avre 290mm mortar: now range distance become 45 after vet 3.

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

5 Jan 2018, 16:09 PM-HOI-Irons

Steam Workshop Link
...

75mm tank gun: damage 170, penetration far/mid/near 125/130/135
...

panzer v 75mm tankgun: 180 damage,penetration far/mid/near 220/240/260

...

changes to damage like that have little impact since most targets take same number of shot to die and are imply overkilled.

Changes to Soviet armor HP make thing even worse since now most weapon will over kill.

Its better to keep HP and damage in multiplies of 80.

Posts: 34

Permanently Banned

5 Jan 2018, 16:16 PMVipper

changes to damage like that have little impact since most targets take same number of shot to die and are imply overkilled.

Changes to Soviet armor HP make thing even worse since now most weapon will over kill.

Its better to keep HP and damage in multiplies of 80.

We want to improve the role of tanks in the game by improving some of the damage, although the battle between tanks may be almost unchanged from the previous.

The Soviet tanks, through these changes, could be more likely to attack German positions with more tanks.

Thank you for advice!

Posts: 122

5 Jan 2018, 16:22 PM-HOI-Irons

We want to improve the role of tanks in the game by improving some of the damage, although the battle between tanks may be almost unchanged from the previous.

The Soviet tanks, through these changes, could be more likely to attack German positions with more tanks.

If you want to increase the tank's effectiveness, you should give it either a little more armor-pen (buff vs armor), or buff MGs inside the tank to increase (buff vs infantry). You can also decrease the reload time.

https://www.coh2.org/post/create/thread_id/66942/quote/648080#

Posts: 34

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5 Jan 2018, 16:26 PMFantomasas

If you want to increase the tank's effectiveness, you should give it either a little more armor-pen (buff vs armor), or buff MGs inside the tank to increase (buff vs infantry). You can also decrease the reload time.

https://www.coh2.org/post/create/thread_id/66942/quote/648080#

I agree with your opinion. However,an overpowering tank will make infantry a tank maintenance worker as play times increase

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

Tank fights should be balanced around:

1) Number of shot to kill vehicle (HP/Damage)

2) Chance to penetrate (Armor/penetration)

3) Chance to hit (TS/accuracy)

In addition vehicles should have specific roles and the tools to achieve them, example:

"Flanker tank"
Designed to perform flanking move. High speed, low penetration far, high close, relativly high rear armor since it probably expose its rear armor during flank and some resistance to engine damage, a dual gun HE bad on the move, AP accurate on the move.

Vet bonus, abilities should be designed to better flank enemy vehicles.

Posts: 1954

Are you trying to balance for 1v1's or everything? If you want to balance for all modes, then instead of changing Gren's RA, you should add a 5th man upgrade that is the same as the one for Tommies. I'd recommend putting the upgrade in T3 or T4 so that it doesn't mess with 1v1 balance but enables Grens to be somewhat survivable in 3's or 4's.

Posts: 2742

The panzer 4 getting 80 health at vet 3 is not a bad idea.

That's about all I agreed with or felt were justified. Many of the changes are direct changes to unit combat performance and access to upgrades/abilities.

Unfortunately many of the balance issues on COH2 derive from the timing and pacing of units, faction rosters, and commander access/utility. And the crippled state of map design.

You explore this a bit with the idea of moving up pgrens, but having both grens and pgrens in t1 may not work well.

Also, note that stormtroopers exist as a doctrinal unit and are much like the pgrens you're proposing. These sorts of things make redesigning units a challenge. The consequences to such changes can radically alter gameplay and not necessarily for the better.

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

5 Jan 2018, 20:11 PMGrumpy

Are you trying to balance for 1v1's or everything? If you want to balance for all modes, then instead of changing Gren's RA, you should add a 5th man upgrade that is the same as the one for Tommies. I'd recommend putting the upgrade in T3 or T4 so that it doesn't mess with 1v1 balance but enables Grens to be somewhat survivable in 3's or 4's.

Mutually exclusive with either G43/LMG42 and it could work. IB4 other units:
-All non MG weapons should see the focus fire thingy removed. In fact, we could improve it (not sure how) on MGs.
-BAR DPS mid-long DPS should be nerfed. Double bar could still be a thing but it would be way more CQC oriented that now.
-Double bren removed or exclusive against 5 man squad.

TBH i'll rather have Pios been a 5 man unit late game and HIGH DPS units nerf across the board. 5 man Pios means more repairs + recrewing support weapons.

About OP: messing with damage is just a mess. I don't see a real direction, just a group of ideas thrown around and mix in an explosive cocktail ready to explode. Some changes reminds me of old Relic yolochanges.

My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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Posts: 353

their change pervert 2 Shot kill Med Tank

but someone want change back Why?

and major change about Tank gameplay need long test
and change simple thing to more complex I dont agree

Posts: 34

Permanently Banned

5 Jan 2018, 20:44 PMZombiFrancis

The panzer 4 getting 80 health at vet 3 is not a bad idea.

That's about all I agreed with or felt were justified. Many of the changes are direct changes to unit combat performance and access to upgrades/abilities.

Unfortunately many of the balance issues on COH2 derive from the timing and pacing of units, faction rosters, and commander access/utility. And the crippled state of map design.

You explore this a bit with the idea of moving up pgrens, but having both grens and pgrens in t1 may not work well.

Also, note that stormtroopers exist as a doctrinal unit and are much like the pgrens you're proposing. These sorts of things make redesigning units a challenge. The consequences to such changes can radically alter gameplay and not necessarily for the better.

Thank you for your advice!

we are considering put pgrens back to t2.

the commander ability re-design and fix will start at next step.

Posts: 34

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5 Jan 2018, 20:11 PMGrumpy

Are you trying to balance for 1v1's or everything? If you want to balance for all modes, then instead of changing Gren's RA, you should add a 5th man upgrade that is the same as the one for Tommies. I'd recommend putting the upgrade in T3 or T4 so that it doesn't mess with 1v1 balance but enables Grens to be somewhat survivable in 3's or 4's.

Thank you for your advice!

in 3v3 or 4v4, artillery is usually more threatening to infantry. If Grens add 5th man, Allied infantry generally can not pose a threat to them.

Posts: 34

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6 Jan 2018, 02:40 AMwandererraven

their change pervert 2 Shot kill Med Tank

but someone want change back Why?

and major change about Tank gameplay need long test
and change simple thing to more complex I dont agree

You want to talk about elephant?

Posts: 34

Permanently Banned

5 Jan 2018, 17:46 PMVipper

Tank fights should be balanced around:

1) Number of shot to kill vehicle (HP/Damage)

2) Chance to penetrate (Armor/penetration)

3) Chance to hit (TS/accuracy)

In addition vehicles should have specific roles and the tools to achieve them, example:

"Flanker tank"
Designed to perform flanking move. High speed, low penetration far, high close, relativly high rear armor since it probably expose its rear armor during flank and some resistance to engine damage, a dual gun HE bad on the move, AP accurate on the move.

Vet bonus, abilities should be designed to better flank enemy vehicles.

can T34-76 handle this job now？

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

6 Jan 2018, 08:10 AM-HOI-Irons

can T34-76 handle this job now？

If you mean in live?
I find the T-34/76 too cost efficient. Costs the about the same as an Ostwind and can fight infantry nearly as good. The "ram" can be very powerful if ones attack the target from the side/rear.

As flanker it is decent since it is fast, cheap and has ram.

In large mode it less useful but that goes for the majority of medium tanks.

The close penetration could be improved.

I would also make "ram" an ability scaling with veterancy.

Posts: 34

Permanently Banned

6 Jan 2018, 09:35 AMVipper

If you mean in live?
I find the T-34/76 too cost efficient. Costs the about the same as an Ostwind and can fight infantry nearly as good. The "ram" can be very powerful if ones attack the target from the side/rear.

As flanker it is decent since it is fast, cheap and has ram.

In large mode it less useful but that goes for the majority of medium tanks.

The close penetration could be improved.

I would also make "ram" an ability scaling with veterancy.

Ostwind can effective against infantry, but lack of armor vehicle. if you want a flanker ambush, can i understand that you want t34-76 get a ability like British tank ability "war speed"

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

6 Jan 2018, 10:06 AM-HOI-Irons

Ostwind can effective against infantry, but lack of armor vehicle. if you want a flanker ambush, can i understand that you want t34-76 get a ability like British tank ability "war speed"

I would change the "ram" no to have to aim just to rush forward similar to Pershing shot, provide heavy crush and cause engine overheat in the end of the run. That could then be removed with veterancy, damage penetration eefect can also change with veternacy.

Posts: 353

6 Jan 2018, 07:15 AM-HOI-Irons

You want to talk about elephant?

why need to buff Elefant 88 mm Gun dmg From 300 to 340

thank for answer

Posts: 34

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6 Jan 2018, 10:37 AMwandererraven

why need to buff Elefant 88 mm Gun dmg From 300 to 340

thank for answer

At first, because his opponent was upgraded, we decided to give him more damage, but now we find this change does not achieve the desired results. You can see the recent update has canceled this change.It will get a similar to jagtiger's ability to fightb againist kv2 behind the house.

Thank you for your reply!

Posts: 34

Permanently Banned

6 Jan 2018, 10:11 AMVipper

I would change the "ram" no to have to aim just to rush forward similar to Pershing shot, provide heavy crush and cause engine overheat in the end of the run. That could then be removed with veterancy, damage penetration eefect can also change with veternacy.

This is a good suggestion! We can consider the skills that can replace the existing.

This is a time-limited and munition-enabled skill that speeds up the tank and firing rate, but after the end the engine slows down due to overload and the slowing effect is canceled later vet 3.

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