Penal Battalions Balanced patch from Relic *Sarcasm

If you rewatch clip you can see I had 2 units firing instead of 1, i am so tired. Just played for 6 hours straight that I cant even edit a clip properly haha.

It's happened before, while both of us in hard cover, I have to agree that volks damage without any upgrades feels like paper in this patch in comparison with ally units. Conscripts are still bad in my eyes, i can handle them from a distance no problem but Penal...

The first engagement seems like bullshit, but the 2nd one it's obvious that Grens would lose that.

It's almost like the cover didn't matter or the Grenadiers were blind in the first engagement. I've had Grens snipe retreating squads so often....

Got a stats sheet for received accuracy of Infantry Sections handy?

If you rewatch clip you can see I had 2 units firing instead of 1, i am so tired. Just played for 6 hours straight that I cant even edit a clip properly haha.

It's happened before, while both of us in hard cover, I have to agree that volks damage without any upgrades feels like paper in this patch in comparison with ally units. Conscripts are still bad in my eyes, i can handle them from a distance no problem but Penal...

Conscripts recently went from 16 damage to 12 damage which was a nerf, but they gained like 25% more accuracy which made them far more reliable. Mostly in close range engagements which is why we're seeing them used more and more.

Penals passive is part of the issue, the more men they lose the stronger they become and not man people know that. Or at least ,it has not been mentioned yet in this forum that the lower the squad number the more lethal a penal could become (I mean you're less models so less guns.. but still shouldn't be overlooked)

Sometimes people just look away, " Oh yeah ill win that " then realize the Penals actually won and they lost a squad. I've been having to teach a friend of mine who has only 50hrs clocked on Coh2 all of the in's and outs of Coh2... and my god you don't realize how high of a learning curve this game has. " All the guns are different, and yes theres like 30 units all with different guns "

If I'm not mistaken the To The Last Man passive on Penals (get stronger as models die) never made it to the live version.

I agree with you on the game being awful on communicating important mechanical information to the player.

If I'm not mistaken the To The Last Man passive on Penals (get stronger as models die) never made it to the live version.

I agree with you on the game being awful on communicating important mechanical information to the player.

To the Last Man
4% accuracy, -2% weapon cooldown, and -3% received accuracy per member lost.

https://www.coh2.org/guides/52852/the-coh2-ability-guide#2424


Penal Battalion
Unlocks the 'To the Last Man' ability.

https://www.coh2.org/guides/29892/the-company-of-heroes-2-veterancy-guide

If I'm not mistaken the To The Last Man passive on Penals (get stronger as models die) never made it to the live version.

I agree with you on the game being awful on communicating important mechanical information to the player.

Honestly RELIC would do a world of good to make a comprehensive tutorial to get new players in. Coh2 has had a somewhat niche community for awhile. Until I made some friends, I found the game horribly frustrating because I didn't understand the mechanics and was getting destroyed repeatedly.

Though the heart of the game that makes me coming back is defiantly these deep levels of complexity, knowledge and even RNG honestly. Relic's newest ESSENCE engine was used for Dawn of War 3 and it fell flat on it's face for removing what made relic RTS games.. Relic RTS games.

Or just update the tooltips to be accurate. That'd do it.

You could copy most of it straight from that ability guide.

The first clip throwing a grenade and then closing in would of won the engagement. You threw it a bit off to the side and stayed at long range while he got insane cover bonuses. Although penals do more damage then volks close range, volks just as all squads do, do more damage at close range. So you would of outlasted him with raw numbers and won.

Second clip you were doing really well but your teammates problems became your problems. As the soviet player teamed up to double team you and cripple you at certain points. The panther was probably a bad purchase when they had so many vehicles/bazookas/PTRS out, I'd of probably gotten the jadpanzer instead. I think you grew frusterated near the end or had "German tank syndrome" where once you got a panther out you ran in to die. Fallback points in this game aren't must buys anymore either considering they increase your reinforce time so drastically.

This also sounds very petty, but hotkeying your units can do world of good as clicking constantly to do actions is not the most efficient way to tackle combat.

This is less of a critique of the problem and more of constructive criticism on how to bring your A game out.

Penals are broken, but the first clip is mostly a showcase of how Volksgrenadiers are simply not a unit.

Volksgrenadiers do not exist.

They deal no damage. They don't have any kind of serious survivability. They simply aren't a threat to anything, ever. But mostly it's the fact they deal no damage that's the problem.

you are wrong, i can clip you more clips if you being wrong.

Penals even in the open ground will out dmg and take more shots then volks can receive or give.
both units behind heavy cover will give penal victory.

Penals do not come in 1 either, a good player brings 2.

The penal spam is real.

Also, you need to learn to view peoples profile. Ive been playing this game since coh 1 and I have 700 hours into coh 2. I am not new or here to just vent, it is an obvious unit that is seeing good results in this patch.

Against OKW they are too strong.

Im sorry to break it to ya, bro.
But it's seriously a L2P-issue.

you use no cover and stand in the open.

Also, sometimes RNG can just be a bitch (Not the case here tho...)

Most allies units can easily win 1 v 2 in early game. But this game is broken as hell anyways, no reason to bother about it.

Why would i close range with infantry that is meant to engange in long range?

Volks are no good from close range, unit card states good long range inf. They should not be loosing long range battles against ex convicts.

One volks squad was also shooting from an angle where the unit was not affected by heavy cover.

this is just the clip i bothered to share, I have many more. I stream this game, I do not come here to cry or make things up.

I know that volks are better at long range but in this case you are essentially letting the penal squad be 4x more durable by being behind heavy cover, just to fight at a range where volks might have a 10% edge, which bonus is bigger? 400% or 10%?

watched clip
Pure L2p

You didn't use cover versus a 300mp squad in heavy cover...

Heavy cover is -50% Received Accuracy and -50% Received Damage, Which means that practically the Penals squad had four times the health it would have in open cover. You should have closed distance to negate the cover bonus, cover doesn't work at very close range. The penals being better than volks at close range doesn't make up for having 2 volks squads, and is way less dangerous than the heavy cover bonus.

Cover is very very strong in this game.

I know that volks are better at long range but in this case you are essentially letting the penal squad be 4x more durable by being behind heavy cover, just to fight at a range where volks might have a 10% edge, which bonus is bigger? 400% or 10%?

Last time I checked volks arnt better at long range.

On a per model basis they do less damage at short and long range and a penial has an additional model too. Pre patch penials were OP because they don't really cost any more than a volk squad and had superior stats.

Post patch I've gets to face many penials though, I forget their changes

The "300 manpower squad" argument is such BS, in all cases, not just Penals.

Resource cost means absolutely nothing because resources are limited only by time.

Also, in a tactical territory control game, no one should be expected to have their entire army, all squads, engaging in every single engagement.

But that's exactly the expectation if you argue that higher cost squads should be overpowered (rather than just excel at a different facet of combat than other factions' squads), since the only way you'll then be able to have a fair fight is if you have literally every last unit in your army facing off against every unit in the opponent's army -- anything below that will simply not add up properly to equal resource expenditure.

The fact is that every single unit must be threatening in some way. All micro and tactics stack on top of that foundation. If a unit poses no threat to anyone (like Volks, Grenadiers w/o G43s, 222s, etc.), then that's a design/balance issue, not a unit cost issue.

https://clips.twitch.tv/ColorfulGeniusLEDBrokeBack


I can show more clips of similar situations

It would not have mattered if I had both units behind heavy cover, penal would have still soaked up damage long enough to be a balanced unit

this has been a problem for a while now, however with the latest nerfs and changes it is becoming incredibly more obvious and frustrating how such a cheese tactic is winning at the moment.

It should not be and it is very strange that any Soviet player you meet now in game completely ignores conscripts and builds only penal battalions.
I mean why woulnt they? Because they have to combine arms and play like every other faction has to?


HOW is this even historically accurate? penal battalions were ex convicts fighting for their freedom, they should have less equipment and fighting capabilities then conscripts.

But forget about realism it just should not happen in an RTS like this a unit can ignore cover and flanking maneuvers so early in game and just A right click move.

Sorry but thats not a balance issue but a l2p issue.

You cant expect Volks (without stgs) to outdamage a full health penal squad that sits in heavy cover at medium range, while your volks just stand in the open.

Next time consider to create more space between the volks and the penals. Or as in this situation where its 2v1, try to just charge up to the penal as soon as it had to relocate because of the incendiary nade. 2 volks would have outgunned the penals badly.

And if you read most post I agree with that and pointed that their veterancy bonuses are also way too strong especially compared to OKW vet bonuses.

Sorry I just got so heated with other people that refuse to see this and put you in that bandwagon xD

my friend stopped playing completely due to this until next patch is released.

We had a guy play against us yesterday and intentionally spammed them both lol

he was like I am so sorry, lol blame Relic haha but i can respect someone who agrees it is strong even if they use it.

Some real ally fanboys in this place, why it took coh 1 yeaaars to achieve perfect balance. The goal should be to balance all the factions not the one you like to play ><

Sorry but thats not a balance issue but a l2p issue.

xD

xD

just ignore the part where I said I had more clips detailing exactly other scenarios?

Are you really going to make me look them up or can you listen to other people that have more experience in this game.

THis is a poor example, even so think about what you are saying about Penals being able to go toe to toe against VOlks, professionally trained soldiers from OKW. I have tested pios vs volks both behind heavy cover and guess who still wins?



Ex convicts going up against 2 professional squads. this clip is still short, you know they were originally in open field? The clip starts with fire already burning on the left side of the battle, that was their original spot, I forced them to cross the field into the hay while firing at them the entire time with 2 squads, they took ZERO dmg. Volks are shooting paper atm against them.

even when changing from cover to cover they took ZERO dmg, thats not what would happen to me, at all.

Even in this poor example they took zero to no damage or model losses while changing cover, they changed cover 3 times.