Like explained multiple times in chagelog, vet 5 and 4 has been nerfed to put the faction veterancy on par with other factions vet 3.
Vet 5 squads like volks and falls, and obers and vehicles like jadgpanzer 4, king tiger and so on are getting nerfed.
Regardless of those changes being justified or not, DBP is factually levelling the scaling of units.
This implies that the lack of caches, which was a feature balancing the powerful veterancy isn't necessary anymore.
OKW Vet balance and caches
14 Dec 2017, 18:49 PM
#1
Posts: 1660
14 Dec 2017, 18:56 PM
#2
Posts: 88
+1
Only OKW dont have a cashes.
If we debuffing okw vet to other faction lvl, so we need to remove all artificial brakes, like it was with 66% fuel inflow after UKF release.
Only OKW dont have a cashes.
If we debuffing okw vet to other faction lvl, so we need to remove all artificial brakes, like it was with 66% fuel inflow after UKF release.
14 Dec 2017, 19:27 PM
#3
1 
Posts: 2885
I would prefer to see how okw works in new patch first. I would also prefer the poll not to be biased. Even if you are sure nobody will vote for "let it be as is", you should put that option in just to make sure you are not wrong. Otherwise the results are meaningless as this is a choice of lesser evil.
As for my ideal idea I would prefer at least 2 factions, one for each side to lack caches. This creates synergy between factions in team games and works against faction mirroring.
As for my ideal idea I would prefer at least 2 factions, one for each side to lack caches. This creates synergy between factions in team games and works against faction mirroring.
14 Dec 2017, 19:29 PM
#4
Posts: 1660
I would prefer to see how okw works in new patch first. I would also prefer the poll not to be biased. Even if you are sure nobody will vote for "let it be as is", you should put that option in just to make sure you are not wrong. Otherwise the results are meaningless as this is a choice of lesser evil.
The "other options" include it, and it was made exactly to avoid katitofs 2.0 to hit the button without writing anything.
If you think it shouldn't get caches just write it down.
14 Dec 2017, 19:31 PM
#5
1 Posts: 2885
The "other options" include it, and it was made exactly to avoid katitofs 2.0 to hit the button without writing anything.
If you think it shouldn't get caches just write it down.
Sorry, but this is the definition of bias if you explicitly say that you want people to have harder time if they are against your idea. And bias results in statistical insignificance.
14 Dec 2017, 19:32 PM
#6
Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1
Added the option to select "OKW should not change" for those who do not want to implement anything.
The internal battery has run dry, the game can now be played. However, clock based events will no longer occur.
14 Dec 2017, 19:38 PM
#7
Posts: 503
Permanently BannedScarvenge is soo stupid, how is possible make fuel with destroyed & fired iron?
Yeah, that is the genius gameplay reality on this game!
Yeah, that is the genius gameplay reality on this game!
14 Dec 2017, 19:38 PM
#8
Posts: 1660
Sorry, but this is the definition of bias if you explicitly say that you want people to have harder time if they are against your idea. And bias implies statistical insignificance.
"Harder time" because they need to write it ? If they aren't literate it isn't my fault, but this thread is/was (originally) intended as poll to evaluate balancing the nerf of veterancy with either better savage or caches like all factions.
I added other ideas just for people that disagreed with those two changes or wanted okw to not change.
14 Dec 2017, 19:48 PM
#9
Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1
"Harder time" because they need to write it ? If they aren't literate it isn't my fault, but this thread is/was (originally) intended as poll to evaluate balancing the nerf of veterancy with either better savage or caches like all factions.
I added other ideas just for people that disagreed with those two changes or wanted okw to not change.
Being literate has nothing to do with this.
If you're presented with an option on the fly, are you going to want to give it much attention? The way the poll was set up originally made it so that to someone only casually interested in the thread could only vote "yes" to two options or vote "vague" and then have to wax lyrical about what their vague choice meant. Other is also not representative of everyone disagreeing, since other could mean no, or another idea about where to take the faction.
It's always good to include an option that lets people disagree without forcing them to commit their time too much. I for instance don't want to explain why I'd select no, but since there was no option to just say "no" from the start, I'm put off from contributing at all if my only option is a statement that doesn't measure up to the other two.
This is not meant as a reprimand, it's just how we construct polls on the site to make sure they don't swing one way due to a limited scope. Please feel free to continue.
The internal battery has run dry, the game can now be played. However, clock based events will no longer occur.
14 Dec 2017, 20:29 PM
#10
Posts: 868 | Subs: 5
Get caches (scarvenge will be doctrinal in scarvenge doctrine)
I understand OKW want...
- Smoke grenades.
- Cheaper tanks.
- Caches.
- 6 man squads at obersoldaten durability at 200 manpower/squad cost.
- T0 Mortar
- T0 MG
- T0 King Tiger.
- Tanks that self-repair, cap flags, are inexpensive AND are the best.
The same way that Wehr Ostheer wants 6x men grenadier squads with 2x LMG42
Sure, that can be done, but you'll have to give up something in exchange.
Here, you want Caches. Fine.
But you'd have to give up like the Vet 5 thing.
And/or the prices would need to be increased further.
Remember OKW used to only have 75% from ressources, or something?
And this was adjusted to 100%?
When that happened, the price for everything was tweaked.
I understand OKW want...
- Smoke grenades.
- Cheaper tanks.
- Caches.
- 6 man squads at obersoldaten durability at 200 manpower/squad cost.
- T0 Mortar
- T0 MG
- T0 King Tiger.
- Tanks that self-repair, cap flags, are inexpensive AND are the best.
The same way that Wehr Ostheer wants 6x men grenadier squads with 2x LMG42
Sure, that can be done, but you'll have to give up something in exchange.
Here, you want Caches. Fine.
But you'd have to give up like the Vet 5 thing.
And/or the prices would need to be increased further.
Remember OKW used to only have 75% from ressources, or something?
And this was adjusted to 100%?
When that happened, the price for everything was tweaked.
People complain the Soviets are useless.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
14 Dec 2017, 20:41 PM
#11
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
I don't think the lack of caches was ever meant to balance out Vet 4-5 but rather balance out the fact that OKW used to be able to manipulate their fuel and munitions income with Mechanized Building. Even then OKW has gotten along fine without Caches even since their income was standardized.
Removing Salvage isn't a great option because it's very useful for denying support weapons and it also gives you fuel for free. Even then, most of the OKW nerfs were either accompanied by an offsetting buff or were to things that were straight up overperforming. I don't think OKW needs caches just because some of it's more silly aspects are finally getting fixed. The fact is that OKW still has Vet 4-5 and gets extra bonuses... just not OP stuff like Vet 4 Obers shooting lasers and suppressing units. Throw in the fact that OKW still gets really good tanks and a non-doc heavy tank and do they *really* need fuel caches to rush those out?
Removing Salvage isn't a great option because it's very useful for denying support weapons and it also gives you fuel for free. Even then, most of the OKW nerfs were either accompanied by an offsetting buff or were to things that were straight up overperforming. I don't think OKW needs caches just because some of it's more silly aspects are finally getting fixed. The fact is that OKW still has Vet 4-5 and gets extra bonuses... just not OP stuff like Vet 4 Obers shooting lasers and suppressing units. Throw in the fact that OKW still gets really good tanks and a non-doc heavy tank and do they *really* need fuel caches to rush those out?
14 Dec 2017, 21:16 PM
#12
Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2
Being literate has nothing to do with this.
If you're presented with an option on the fly, are you going to want to give it much attention? The way the poll was set up originally made it so that to someone only casually interested in the thread could only vote "yes" to two options or vote "vague" and then have to wax lyrical about what their vague choice meant. Other is also not representative of everyone disagreeing, since other could mean no, or another idea about where to take the faction.
It's always good to include an option that lets people disagree without forcing them to commit their time too much. I for instance don't want to explain why I'd select no, but since there was no option to just say "no" from the start, I'm put off from contributing at all if my only option is a statement that doesn't measure up to the other two.
This is not meant as a reprimand, it's just how we construct polls on the site to make sure they don't swing one way due to a limited scope. Please feel free to continue.
Ill just add thats its an accepted fact in the field of statistics that people are less likely to give input (or select a certain option) if it is more difficult or takes more effort to do so.
14 Dec 2017, 21:27 PM
#13
Posts: 728
Like explained multiple times in chagelog, vet 5 and 4 has been nerfed to put the faction veterancy on par with other factions vet 3.
Vet 5 squads like volks and falls, and obers and vehicles like jadgpanzer 4, king tiger and so on are getting nerfed.
Regardless of those changes being justified or not, DBP is factually levelling the scaling of units.
This implies that the lack of caches, which was a feature balancing the powerful veterancy isn't necessary anymore.
You get caches then you lose the ability to scavenge that simple
14 Dec 2017, 22:21 PM
#14
Posts: 868 | Subs: 5
You get caches then you lose the ability to scavenge that simple
======
+1 what he said above.
So need to pay LOTS LOTS LOTS for Caches.
- And lose the ability to gain tons of ressources for free (Scavenging)
Basically, asking for a nerf.
Since wehr/osteer can give you the caches.
enjoy caches for free, AND have Scavenge.
And instead, pay $$$$$ for caches, and lose FREE scavenge.
Sure, we can accept your offer to have OKW nerfed if you REALLY want to.
People complain the Soviets are useless.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
14 Dec 2017, 23:12 PM
#15
Posts: 1660
======
+1 what he said above.
So need to pay LOTS LOTS LOTS for Caches.
- And lose the ability to gain tons of ressources for free (Scavenging)
Basically, asking for a nerf.
Since wehr/osteer can give you the caches.
enjoy caches for free, AND have Scavenge.
And instead, pay $$$$$ for caches, and lose FREE scavenge.
Sure, we can accept your offer to have OKW nerfed if you REALLY want to.
This is pretty much BS, actual scarvenge is a joke, 5 fuel such a powercreep LUL.
14 Dec 2017, 23:13 PM
#16
Posts: 4474
some one forgot that vet 4 5 are now just cosmetics
======
+1 what he said above.
So need to pay LOTS LOTS LOTS for Caches.
- And lose the ability to gain tons of ressources for free (Scavenging)
Basically, asking for a nerf.
Since wehr/osteer can give you the caches.
enjoy caches for free, AND have Scavenge.
And instead, pay $$$$$ for caches, and lose FREE scavenge.
Sure, we can accept your offer to have OKW nerfed if you REALLY want to.
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
14 Dec 2017, 23:16 PM
#17
Posts: 1660
You get caches then you lose the ability to scavenge that simple
Hope you haven't voted, what's the point of voting if you don't have any but a single freaking match as okw for fucks sake ?
That's the reason why this poll had to be EXCLUSIVELY about which kind of change, if any, should be made...
14 Dec 2017, 23:33 PM
#18
15 Posts: 164
There are many facets to this discussion and where I sit is dependent on what game mode we are talking about.
In 1v1 I think this is a valid discussion.
In team games I wouldn't want OKW to get caches. In fact, i would prefer that they were removed from all factions and only have them accessible as features in particular commanders. Caches have too great of an effect on the pacing of team games, without effecting field presence in any meaningful way.
In 1v1 I think this is a valid discussion.
In team games I wouldn't want OKW to get caches. In fact, i would prefer that they were removed from all factions and only have them accessible as features in particular commanders. Caches have too great of an effect on the pacing of team games, without effecting field presence in any meaningful way.
14 Dec 2017, 23:35 PM
#19
Posts: 4474
There are many facets to this discussion and where I sit is dependent on what game mode we are talking about.orr they did like fbp and reduced all caches resources the higher the player are ( it was like +2 in 4 vs 4 , +3 3vs3 ,+4 2vs2 and normal in 1vs 1)
In 1v1 I think this is a valid discussion.
In team games I wouldn't want OKW to get caches. In fact, i would prefer that they were removed from all factions and only have them accessible as features in particular commanders. Caches have too great of an effect on the pacing of team games, without effecting field presence in any meaningful way.
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
15 Dec 2017, 00:12 AM
#20
Posts: 2742
orr they did like fbp and reduced all caches resources the higher the player are ( it was like +2 in 4 vs 4 , +3 3vs3 ,+4 2vs2 and normal in 1vs 1)
Although one of the major reasons large teams games are considerably borked in CoH2 has to do with the available assets for map making.
CoH2 Montargis Region
https://www.coh2.org/file/14235/mr2.jpg
CoH1 Montargis Region
http://cohonlinegame.ru/images/content/maps/montargis_region.jpg
Look at the number of territory points. Look at how resources are distributed.
The CoH2 is in annihilation mode too, so the VPs are resource points on that one, and it doesn't show cutoff sectors. But the point is the lack of territory/resource point options completely restricts layouts in a way that really don't extend beyond a 2v2. And even that's stretching it. Even 1v1 maps are extremely limited in their potential designs.
All of this has completely prior to any faction or game match.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
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