Buff Sturmpioneer Flammenwerfers in WBP, This is Ridiculous

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  VS

  Storm Elite

  MarcosT

  Volksgrenadier Holdout vs Red Army

  by: Storm Elite map: Unknown

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Ignore the results of the match. Just the terrible matchmaker at work. Poor guy kept putting all his units into cover even against flamethrowers.

Except... doing so didn't really harm him nearly as much as it should have.

Exhibit A: On multiple occasions throughout this replay, you'll see Sturmpioneers with Flammenwerfers facing off against Soviet Engineers with flamethrowers, with the engineers being in cover practically every time, while the Sturmpioneers are out of it.

You'd expect the engineers to melt in two seconds... but they actually manage to kill off multiple models each time, in a 1-on-1 engagement.

If this isn't unbalanced, I don't know what is. I guess maybe it's a bug? But I somehow doubt it. That flame nerf like a year or more ago went waaaaay overboard, to the point where now both Volks' incendiary grenades and, clearly, Sturms' Flammenwerfers are just blatantly underpowered.

Revamping Feuersturm won't do snot if this continues to be the case. Why bother upgrading to a flamethrower that doesn't deal bonus damage against units in cover?

I haven't watched the replay, but flamethrowers only do 25% extra damage to units in heavy cover. The real damage boost comes from their AoE, which usually hits all models when they are in cover. I'm guessing you got unlucky and had the flamethrower dude shooting at one model far away from the others where the AoE didn't reach them. They annihilate units in buildings because it will hit all units in the building at the same time. Flamethroweres really don't do that much damage on their own in a 1v1.


Flamethrowers get no bonus versus yellow cover btw.

Flamethrowers also ignore received accuracy... so yeah that evens things up flamer engineer vs. flamer engineer. Add that to the fact that you are charging a unit in cover while out of cover and yeah... there you go.

Also, incendiary grenades underpowered, what the what now? No clue what you are talking about but it's been a looooong time since flamers have been touched

Well, I may not have phrased my observation well. It wasn't just an issue of losing considerable models.

There were multiple scenarios where both units exchanged flame blasts, and I'm fairly certain that not ALL instances can be attributed to bad luck in positioning relative to models, but every single time, the Sturmpioneers' damage was absolutely minuscule.

Could probably use a lab, but I have no idea where to get that testing client people on YouTube use to demonstrate patch changes via that huge drop-down menu that can spawn anything and change settings on the fly.

Also, incendiary grenades underpowered, what the what now? No clue what you are talking about but it's been a looooong time since flamers have been touched

Have you ever tried actually keeping a unit in a building that's set on fire with a Volks incendiary nade? Just seems like people never bother to and just assume it deals the expected high amount of damage to garrisoned units, even though it actually doesn't.

Well, I may not have phrased my observation well. It wasn't just an issue of losing considerable models.

There were multiple scenarios where both units exchanged flame blasts, and I'm fairly certain that not ALL instances can be attributed to bad luck in positioning relative to models, but every single time, the Sturmpioneers' damage was absolutely minuscule.

Could probably use a lab, but I have no idea where to get that testing client people on YouTube use to demonstrate patch changes via that huge drop-down menu that can spawn anything and change settings on the fly.



Have you ever tried actually keeping a unit in a building that's set on fire with a Volks incendiary nade? Just seems like people never bother to and just assume it deals the expected high amount of damage to garrisoned units, even though it actually doesn't.

go to modding under in game store look up cheat command mod 2 by janne, its a win condition for custom gamesso you can use it with other mods

They definitely do deal expected amount of damage. Do mind though that in case of buildings it actually makes a difference where you throw the granade. If it lands far away from enemy models it will deal very little damage unless whole building is set on fire (but that is a rare occurance).

As for flamers that have been rightfully standarised, no need to break that.

go to modding under in game store look up cheat command mod 2 by janne, its a win condition for custom gamesso you can use it with other mods

Adding to this. I suggest you download both versions as they fulfil (IMO) better jobs respectively.
Mod2 is more complete but a bit less intuitive/practical to work with. It has the added benefit of been able to test different commander abilities without the need of equiping them.
Mod1 excels at testing specifics units as it's faster to change ownership, states, copying units, etc.

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The answer.

They definitely do deal expected amount of damage. Do mind though that in case of buildings it actually makes a difference where you throw the granade. If it lands far away from enemy models it will deal very little damage unless whole building is set on fire (but that is a rare occurance).

As for flamers that have been rightfully standarised, no need to break that.

Not sure if it's updated or even if my extractor is up to date or working well but:
http://stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=tommy_flamethrower

"Fixed an issue where Sapper flamethrower was dealing additional damage vs squads in cover (i.e., above the level of other flamethrowers)". Maybe they made UKF to get another type of flamer file.

Have you ever tried actually keeping a unit in a building that's set on fire with a Volks incendiary nade? Just seems like people never bother to and just assume it deals the expected high amount of damage to garrisoned units, even though it actually doesn't.

While flamethrowers will hit everything in a building, incendiary nades and molotovs will only hit units that are in the windows within it's radius. Make sure you're hitting the proper spots on the house.

While flamethrowers will hit everything in a building, incendiary nades and molotovs will only hit units that are in the windows within it's radius. Make sure you're hitting the proper spots on the house.

I once had a guy in one of those long rectangular wooden houses face his vickers the other way after I facerushed him with a single volks squad and threw a flamenade in and it did very little damage (the volks were suppressed and had lost like 2 models by that time). After a while he just faced it back again and kept shooting. I wasn't even mad because it was kind of cool.

This is also dbp by the way; wbp was last year. I thought this was a necro at first.