G43 upgrade on grenadiers worth it at all?

My opinion on this is that G43s on grenadiers are totally worthless. Grenadiers are really fragile comparing to line infantries of other nations, the only advantage they have is firepower. MG42 fits them perfectly since you can't use them as frontline infantry in the mid and late game(panzergrenadiers will do that), but as second line fire support units. G43 performs better at close range, which makes grenadiers even more exposed and vulnerable during late game. Unless you are extremely conservative on munitions, I really don't think you should upgrade G43 on grenadiers.

Any other ideas?

In practise G43 is really quite powerful, it allows you to have good firepower on the move, which means you can be more aggresive (yes you still have to be careful with 4 man squads), but you can push and take out positions. It really helps when 2 g43 squads are together, you start to have enough DPS to get wipes.

LMG can be countered by mortars and grenades, you will have to reposition, then you lose firepower and lose the firefight. You can also drop them which is a big thing in G43 favour also!

They are much better on close quarters maps and are absolutely lethal for killing retreating squads since you can chase them an still have good accuracy. They are far from useless - just situational.

They certainly are, because they allow for better on the move dps! Vet 3 G43 grenadiers bully riflemen and in some circumstances even penals!

LMGs don't work properly on the move, and work terribly when stationary outside of buildings because of the slow turning and not firing.

In fact, G43s are the only viable upgrade for Grenadiers unless you're playing on a map that's just jam packed with garrisons.

From munitions cost to performance, the only advantage LMGs have over G43s is being able to put out solid DPS from a single window, which in the majority of cases isn't as good as having two G43s, and in the coming update, three G43s.

Yes, Grenadiers are stupidly flimsy, and that's a problem that's never been addressed (the spacing "solutions" are a farce), but that's all the more reason for why they really need to be able to fire powerful shots on the move and not lose DPS to LMG setup (not setup-setup, but pseudo-setup related to how the LMG-wielding model turns and prepares to fire, and various pauses it takes constantly).

With Grenadiers, every second counts during a firefight, and G43s allow you to capitalize on those seconds with maximum efficiency while the LMG-wielding Grenadier squads fidget around not firing and bugging out in various ways.

ask aimstrong. he managed to do nothing else but spam g43 grens since release of this game

LMGs don't work properly on the move, and work terribly when stationary outside of buildings because of the slow turning and not firing.

In fact, G43s are the only viable upgrade for Grenadiers unless you're playing on a map that's just jam packed with garrisons.

From munitions cost to performance, the only advantage LMGs have over G43s is being able to put out solid DPS from a single window, which in the majority of cases isn't as good as having two G43s, and in the coming update, three G43s.

Yes, Grenadiers are stupidly flimsy, and that's a problem that's never been addressed (the spacing "solutions" are a farce), but that's all the more reason for why they really need to be able to fire powerful shots on the move and not lose DPS to LMG setup (not setup-setup, but pseudo-setup related to how the LMG-wielding model turns and prepares to fire, and various pauses it takes constantly).

With Grenadiers, every second counts during a firefight, and G43s allow you to capitalize on those seconds with maximum efficiency while the LMG-wielding Grenadier squads fidget around not firing and bugging out in various ways.

Good points. But I think 3 G43s only apply to panzergrenadiers and stormtroopers.

G43s have the best moving accuracy of, I believe, any other weapon in the game. This is very useful, especially if the allied player is going heavy on indirect fire or snipers. Since ostheers t0 has the hmg42, many allied players tend to build to counter those: usually with indirect and sometimes snipers.

So, in many ways it is a very worthwhile upgrade.

G43s have the best moving accuracy of, I believe, any other weapon in the game. This is very useful, especially if the allied player is going heavy on indirect fire or snipers. Since ostheers t0 has the hmg42, many allied players tend to build to counter those: usually with indirect and sometimes snipers.

So, in many ways it is a very worthwhile upgrade.

Thanks for the tip. I will consider getting G43s if my opponent get a lot of support weapon/conscripts

Actually conscripts, of all units, are probably the one situation where the LMG42 is most worthwhile. (Maybe not with, or after, DBP, mind you.)

And I wouldn't necessarily suggest the G43s are the answer to MG spam, though, just to clarify since you said 'support weapons'.

Mix is the Answer i think.

Sometimes i use 2 G43 Grandiers + 1 MG42 Granadiers. ( maybe 2 MG42 and 1 G43 work better but is a little more expensive).

MG42 give you a solid damage capable of hurt their squads and G43 Finish them off.

i remember (maybe wrong)., but G43 have a Finisher chance right? if the enemy model have low HP can just kill it. i just apply the concept and seems like work to me.

Someone must write in-depth guide or something about G43. I believe there are different versions of it for PzGrens and Grenadiers. Not sure about Stormtroopers G43. Can someone find any information about it? Call Cruzz goddangit

Someone must write in-depth guide or something about G43. I believe there are different versions of it for PzGrens and Grenadiers. Not sure about Stormtroopers G43. Can someone find any information about it? Call Cruzz goddangit

Grens get 2 G43s and PGrens get 3. That's the only difference I think. According to this site there's a version for PGrens but I don't think it's being used in multiplayer.

Someone must write in-depth guide or something about G43. I believe there are different versions of it for PzGrens and Grenadiers. Not sure about Stormtroopers G43. Can someone find any information about it? Call Cruzz goddangit

Panzergrenadier has 3 G43s wile grenadiers and stormtroopers only have 2

Ok so I'm a bit new to some of the stats used in this game and I'm trying to wrap my head around it all. So most infantry in the game (excluding some snipers) have 80 hp and most have no armour stat. So one unit being better than another mostly comes down to squad size, received accuracy and weapons.

So grenadiers are basically worse because they have standard 1 received accuracy, middling accuracy/ low bolt action rate of fire and only 4 soldiers. So individually they aren't too bad, but they are just outnumbered by most allied squads of 5 or 6?

Sorry if this seems obvious, but I'm just trying to figure out why my Grenadier squads aren't that great, but Volksgrenadier squads seem to kick every kind of ass imaginable.

Ok so I'm a bit new to some of the stats used in this game and I'm trying to wrap my head around it all. So most infantry in the game (excluding some snipers) have 80 hp and most have no armour stat. So one unit being better than another mostly comes down to squad size, received accuracy and weapons.

So grenadiers are basically worse because they have standard 1 received accuracy, middling accuracy/ low bolt action rate of fire and only 4 soldiers. So individually they aren't too bad, but they are just outnumbered by most allied squads of 5 or 6?

Sorry if this seems obvious, but I'm just trying to figure out why my Grenadier squads aren't that great, but Volksgrenadier squads seem to kick every kind of ass imaginable.

I think they have slightly less than 1.0 received accuracy, but it isn't nearly enough to compensate for lack of a fifth model.

So in the end, yes, the four model squads are a blatant handicap and unbalanced. It used to be balanced in vanilla CoH2 because Soviet infantry was really bad per model and needed to overtake with sheer numbers, but with the release of Western Front Armies the game has gone into full power creep, with all Allied factions, including Soviets thanks to absurdly overpowered Penals, being blatantly better than Ostheer, and somewhat better than OKW (mostly because Volksgrenadiers don't exist as they deal no damage whatsoever).

I think they have slightly less than 1.0 received accuracy, but it isn't nearly enough to compensate for lack of a fifth model.

So in the end, yes, the four model squads are a blatant handicap and unbalanced. It used to be balanced in vanilla CoH2 because Soviet infantry was really bad per model and needed to overtake with sheer numbers, but with the release of Western Front Armies the game has gone into full power creep, with all Allied factions, including Soviets thanks to absurdly overpowered Penals, being blatantly better than Ostheer, and somewhat better than OKW (mostly because Volksgrenadiers don't exist as they deal no damage whatsoever).

I seem to remember in CoH1's stats that infantry had different HP levels and armour levels, which was used to make up for some squads having more soldiers. So Grens had more health than volks, Stormtroopers had more health than grens and KCHs had even higher hp than all of them. Now it seems received accuracy is the only stat that can make a squad harder to kill.

Actually, I may be wrong there, this game does have an armour stat, and it's almost as confusing as COH1's bizarre armour types that made Pgrens so wildly inconsistent.

stuff being blatantly better than Ostheer grenadiers

I must be bad at this game or something, but... I really don't think grenadiers are underpowered. The december balance patch resolved the biggest grievance about them (the manpower drain issue) by lowering their pop cap.

Ostheer is built around support weapons. Giving a faction built around support weapons really good infantry, is recipe for an overpowered faction and not good design.

Within this scope, stock grenadiers are all about holding ground, and supporting team weapons. This is why Grenadiers are also crazy accurate, it is near suicide to cross open terrain against them 1v1.