Okw smoke in 1v1

give the flaktrack the sherman smoke ability

that way it becomes an infantry support unit

hell, folding the IR halftrack ability into the flaktrack as well and replacing it with something else would be great

Basically, OKW has come to the point where they need a gazillion of weapons available at T0 from early on.

Perhaps the best way to address this without making Luchs rush OP is move raketen/mg34/ISG to a separate, cheap tier structure (or side-grade) that allows OKW to get all that stuff sooner, if necessary.

Basically, OKW has come to the point where they need a gazillion of weapons available at T0 from early on.

Perhaps the best way to address this without making Luchs rush OP is move raketen/mg34/ISG to a separate, cheap tier structure (or side-grade) that allows OKW to get all that stuff sooner, if necessary.

OKW T0 units should be the core army pieces that are supported by various T1-T2 units, and T3 are the elite heavy hitters.

Whats your opinion on giving the Flaktrack a targeted smoke ability like the Sherman? Then instead of smoke the ISG could get flares.

So from what I’ve read, this thread is about OKW’s inability to deal with MG since the Volks nor Sturms have access to smoke (also there are arguments that some factions have more smoke than others, mostly USF). Thus, by comparing these differences the creator of the topic is suggesting to add more smoke options beyond the ISG smoke that is coming,

There are some suggestions that are lost in the sea of new comments. One being giving the Kuble a smoke launcher of sorts at vet one. The other is that Volks already block line of sight with their flame grenade.

To me however, I think Lelic is trying to move away from core infantry having access to smoke (The recent Rifle changes reflect that) So I don’t support giving Volks or Sturms some sort of smoke, but I do support giving light vehicles like the Kubel or the (dare I suggest it) spotlight half track a smoke abilities. Nobody ever builds the Spotlight halftrack in 1v1s so that’s a problem, yet there’s a bit of synergy in its core use and the addition of a smoke ability.

Anyways that my two cent. Probably need to see the ISG changes from the December update in the context of everything being changed before asking for more.

Thx for listening to my suggestions mod team ^^

Some great ideas here. I'm not too serious about this but what about mashing all the ideas together:

Take Raketenwerfer, MG34, ISG and put it in their own Tier 1.5 truck and call it support regiment truck.
Should be a very cheap tech and have a unique bonus, but I can't think of anything but heal or repair right now, which are both occupied.

Take Obers from T4 into T2 and give them double shreck upgrade option for (80-90 mun?) and another option to upgrade to LMG34 (locked behind T4).
Vanilla Obers could be adjusted to be an alternative infnatry instead of a super specialist elite squad, but careful to not create Volks+Shrecks 2.0 here.

Either give the Flack Halftrack or Infrared Halftrack the same smoke option as the USF shermans and remove ISG smoke. Maybe adjust Infrared price.

That's about it. If you want to go further, you could give Volks normal nades and introduce a T0 Urban Warfare Package, that turns normal Volks nades into flame nades and give them 2,3 or 5 MP40s (either pricy global or maybe an individual upgrade). New Obers could still fill long range role, but need price/upkeep adjustments to be able to do that.

(Bonus for the autists: With this tech structure all tiers would offer 3 units)

I don't take credit for the individual ideas thrown around here, so cheers to the guys before me, but how does this sound?

Some great ideas here. I'm not too serious about this but what about mashing all the ideas together:

Take Raketenwerfer, MG34, ISG and put it in their own Tier 1.5 truck and call it support regiment truck.
Should be a very cheap tech and have a unique bonus, but I can't think of anything but heal or repair right now, which are both occupied.

The alternative is to realise the following:
- Every faction requires reliable access to healing
- OKW has had 2/3rds of the support weapons already moved to Tier-0 in order to support the illusion of non-linear teching
- OKW needs to have early access to indirect fire/smoke, to punish MG spam
- OKW needs to have early-ish access to MGs, to make them less of an early-game infantry blob faction
- High-tier people require something mobile to rush and overwhelm the enemy. That's because playing passively means you're losing your initiative

OKW would have been able to support non-linear teching if its unit roster actually had the necessary units. E.g., if we picked all Panzer Elite 250-HT units, and moved them to MedHQ (and potentially removed ISG, since mortarHT is more mobile), players would now have two decent tiers to choose from.

Moreover, you would now have a truly aggressive faction with real trade-offs to make (e.g., how much fuel do I want to spend to support being aggressive, vs how much to save for teching up).
- If you go MechHQ you get a tanky direct-fire unit, but an expensive indirect fire unit
- If you go MedHQ you get a relatively immobile direct-fire unit, but an affordable and very mobile indirect-fire unit

Unfortunately, that's not possible to do for the live game, since OKW lacks the skins for the required vehicles (250 halftrack, mortar halftrack, etc)

Thus, given that this is the unit roster that OKW has access to, a potential good way to rearrange it is to accept that OKW teching has to be linearised:

Linear tech OKW:

MedHQ
Make it arrive way earlier. Gives the player access to HMG, LeIG (the beefy FBP version) and maybe Obers (with no upgrades)
MechHQ (requires MedHQ)
Make it arrive 15-ish fuel later than live-version MechHQ. Gives the player access to luchs, puma and a more consistent Stuka (lower cooldown, lower cost, but no insta-wipes thing).

The tier should also give the OKW player access to a dirt-cheap FlakHT (something along the lines of 40FU), so that the halftrack is competitive to the Luchs, and is also the tier's lategame mainstay when it comes to cheap AI (luchs is not reliable lategame AI)

FlakHQ (requires FlakHQ)
- Unlocks LMG upgrade for Obers, same units as before, otherwise
(there would probably have to be a new upgrade to unlock as a prerequisite for King Tiger, to prevent it from coming out way too early)

Raketenwerfer:
The unit completely breaks the counter system. It's weak and RNG vs targets it's supposed to counter (tanks), yet completely negates infantry flanks with retreat.

Easy rework:
- Increase crew size from 4-men to 5-men (to make more resilient to AoE)
- Remove retreat button (to make it actually vulnerable to small arms fire)
- Add reverse button

Tougher rework:
Pak40-ish clone (price, range, arc, damage, rate-of-fire), on a raketen model with the following features:
- Soviet ambush camouflage at Vet1, instead of TWP
- 5-man crew

Very mature acknowledgements and realistic/levelheaded approach you have there.
Where is the smoke problem adressed though?
As far as I understood the discussion it isn't optimal on ISG because it is an expensive indirect fire unit that doesn't do the main job as good as it should, when comparing to mortars from other factions (especially in 1v1).

Sturms have always been and are nowadays even more so doing overtime like hell. Can't give them smoke too, unless like you did afaik, make them faster to build and lower maintenance so you can afford 2 squads in normal games. Is that the way to go though?

Whats your opinion on giving the Flaktrack a targeted smoke ability like the Sherman?

This sounds very intriguing either for the Flacktrack or maybe even the IR? To give it some purpose in 1v1s? Can't make them even cheaper though because MUH TEAM GAEMZ.

As I know volks can throw incendiary nade whatever. Keep crawling at the front of vicker and throw nade until you reach the range. That's all the skill you need.

Yeah I wish there was some kind of cooldown....

The alternative is to realise the following:
- Every faction requires reliable access to healing
- OKW has had 2/3rds of the support weapons already moved to Tier-0 in order to support the illusion of non-linear teching
- OKW needs to have early access to indirect fire/smoke, to punish MG spam
- OKW needs to have early-ish access to MGs, to make them less of an early-game infantry blob faction
- High-tier people require something mobile to rush and overwhelm the enemy. That's because playing passively means you're losing your initiative

OKW would have been able to support non-linear teching if its unit roster actually had the necessary units. E.g., if we picked all Panzer Elite 250-HT units, and moved them to MedHQ (and potentially removed ISG, since mortarHT is more mobile), players would now have two decent tiers to choose from.

Moreover, you would now have a truly aggressive faction with real trade-offs to make (e.g., how much fuel do I want to spend to support being aggressive, vs how much to save for teching up).
- If you go MechHQ you get a tanky direct-fire unit, but an expensive indirect fire unit
- If you go MedHQ you get a relatively immobile direct-fire unit, but an affordable and very mobile indirect-fire unit

Unfortunately, that's not possible to do for the live game, since OKW lacks the skins for the required vehicles (250 halftrack, mortar halftrack, etc)

Thus, given that this is the unit roster that OKW has access to, a potential good way to rearrange it is to accept that OKW teching has to be linearised:

Linear tech OKW:

MedHQ
Make it arrive way earlier. Gives the player access to HMG, LeIG (the beefy FBP version) and maybe Obers (with no upgrades)
MechHQ (requires MedHQ)
Make it arrive 15-ish fuel later than live-version MechHQ. Gives the player access to luchs, puma and a more consistent Stuka (lower cooldown, lower cost, but no insta-wipes thing).

The tier should also give the OKW player access to a dirt-cheap FlakHT (something along the lines of 40FU), so that the halftrack is competitive to the Luchs, and is also the tier's lategame mainstay when it comes to cheap AI (luchs is not reliable lategame AI)

FlakHQ (requires FlakHQ)
- Unlocks LMG upgrade for Obers, same units as before, otherwise
(there would probably have to be a new upgrade to unlock as a prerequisite for King Tiger, to prevent it from coming out way too early)

Raketenwerfer:
The unit completely breaks the counter system. It's weak and RNG vs targets it's supposed to counter (tanks), yet completely negates infantry flanks with retreat.

Easy rework:
- Increase crew size from 4-men to 5-men (to make more resilient to AoE)
- Remove retreat button (to make it actually vulnerable to small arms fire)
- Add reverse button

Tougher rework:
Pak40-ish clone (price, range, arc, damage, rate-of-fire), on a raketen model with the following features:
- Soviet ambush camouflage at Vet1, instead of TWP
- 5-man crew

The raketenwerfer hard rework seems good, any lossible way to implement it ?

Is that really an issue to implement ostheer units in okw rister and rework it like that ?
Can't skins issue being ignored and only apply standard skins fir such units ? Like opel blitz.

Regarding flak ht, ever thought about an hulldown ability that lower its target sight, to make it survive late game ?

Its just l2p man, you post repley after Crossroads game vs Brosras , where was 1 50 cal at middle and where you just push him at front, so i dont think that even smoke help you.

Its just l2p man, you post repley after Crossroads game vs Brosras , where was 1 50 cal at middle and where you just push him at front, so i dont think that even smoke help you.

It's not that i post something after 1 game . I'm not the regular axis/allies whiner ^^
(it were 2 .50 call's, watch replay next time ) . But that replay was just one example

It's not that i post something after 1 game . I'm not the regular axis/allies whiner ^^
(it were 2 .50 call's, watch replay next time ) . But that replay was just one example

It isn't wise to feed the mouths that criticize you lol

It's not that i post something after 1 game . I'm not the regular axis/allies whiner ^^
(it were 2 .50 call's, watch replay next time ) . But that replay was just one example

you forget to add ,that 50 cal arrive at 19 min and there was 2 mortars, but not 2 50 cal. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/205240843

you forget to add ,that 50 cal arrive at 19 min and there was 2 mortars, but not 2 50 cal. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/205240843

You know that i played multiple games with brosras and that he didnt stream them all right? ^^

OKW in 1vs1 suffers a lot against mgs. Can't recall how shitty was to play against maximspam back in the day. .50cal in certain maps is an autowin due to the lack of tools to counter it.

I like all the suggestions given in the post. Whatever it needs to encourage combined arms for OKW which now it's the most simpler and boring faction to play.

You know that i played multiple games with brosras and that he didnt stream them all right? ^^

What if we ask Brosras to proof you little lie ?

OKW in 1vs1 suffers a lot against mgs. Can't recall how shitty was to play against maximspam back in the day. .50cal in certain maps is an autowin due to the lack of tools to counter it.

I like all the suggestions given in the post. Whatever it needs to encourage combined arms for OKW which now it's the most simpler and boring faction to play.

.50 autowin vs OKW, I'll like to know what are those maps.

.50 autowin vs OKW, I'll like to know what are those maps.

1vs1 maps.

What if we ask Brosras to proof you little lie ?

Sigh i shouldn't react on this i know swift
Do go ahead and ask, but don't let your personal vendetta vs me make you imagen things that aren't here ^^

I want to keep the productional conversation going here, so i'm going to invise future off topic post of you and me. You can pm me if you really feel the need to continue shitting on me