[DBP] Lefh/ML20 one-shot problem suggestion

And is it really fun for axis ? Always need one Osteer who have static counter doctrine (at lease dive bomb, recon or rely on spec ops fare arty) Or OKW rely one spec ops + fortification combo to deal with static arty.

Both side have same BS cancer as well, admit it !!!

Ost get 3 commander with SDB and recon and three of them are also extremely useful. There is one only for SU and IL2+recon is much more expensive than SDB+recon for countering the howitzer.

You totally forget Canadian Royal Artillery doctrine, the best counter static units doctrine in CoH2.

Is airburst able to crush the howitzer(not the crew)? If not, it's useless.

SDB no longer destroy the weapons.

I dislike guaranteed one-shot kills of any kind. I understand the reasoning of the mod team that howitzers need to be killable by a single ability lest they become incredibly difficult to dislodge. Nobody likes arty spamfests and with the new prices it seems likely that arty spamfest is a distinct possibility if howitzers are not kept in check somehow. Additionally, the meta will change after DBP and hopefully we will be seeing less SDB doctrines overall (especially the Ele+SDB commander, who has plagued the 4v4 scene for a long time now).

I've long proposed for SDB (and any Allied same-cost counterpart) to not destroy a full health howitzer but reduce it to ~5% hit points, decrew it and apply a "main gun mangled" critical. This critical would disable firing and also increase the repair time by a factor of 3 while active (not sure if such a thing is possible with the existing modding capabilities). It would only go away at 100% hit points. When it goes away, it also puts the howitzer on full cooldown.

This way you do not instantly destroy a howitzer with a one-click wipe, but you do remove its veterancy, put it out of commission for a very long time and also tie up their engineers who could otherwise be minesweeping or flamethrowing. Not to mention engineers repairing it are at a significant risk, as literally any follow up attack on the position, by a mortar or a rocket arty, would be guaranteed to kill the repairing dudes and prolong the repair process even more.

If the SDB target tables were further tweaked to almost kill a full health healthy howitzer, then combining an SDB with farting at its general direction with a gun or a grenade or a mortar would still outright destroy the gun.

Note that this was a proposal before DBP changes. I suppose 200 ammo + recon cost should result in the outright destruction of a 400 mp / 50 fu howitzer.

i dont think there should be any ability that should destroy a single investment without a significant finesse or effort involved. if so, im willing to pay 1k mp, 500 muni and 500 fuel each game to instantly blow up the enemy HQ.

limit the amount of aoe damage arty can do. 160 to a single entity with a max damage of 180. that means only 3 men can die to a single shot. if its far too back, reduce its range, force players to build it further up.

instantly destroying and nullifying the entire doctrine should not be considered a good way to balance the game. SDB should blow up the crew and severely damage the gun. as for the crew, they should be able to abandon gun to get out of the way of an incoming bombing run. same for pak43.

In the vast majority of 4v4 maps it is practically infeasible to reach and destroy a howitzer. Thus, having abilities that act as fail-safes for that is a good design. Adding brace-like abilities, or removing this OHK feature could lead to cancerous plays.

For instance, Mortar Pit sim city is cancerous because it doesen't die early enough. However, howitzers make short work of it. Thus, there are some balancing checks there. However, if howitzers themselves become unkillable, why not build 1-2 of them EVERY SINGLE GAME?

The changes in off-map abilities mean that no ability below 200MU can insta-gib howitzers anymore.

Furthermore, changes to howitzers means that when the howitzer dies, it's no longer 600MP (hard to replace) down the drain.

So yes; the first time you build a howitzer, expect it to get blown up like before. Follow-up howitzers will start putting a strain in your opponents' munition reserve and should be able to survive for longer.

I have always wondered, why not simply make arty barrage costing munitions and reducing its building price (for example your DBP price cut in half for each arty unit). 100 munitions per barrage for any arty unit (including the priest).
In 4vs4 the guys building Arty is also the one building fuel cache for his mates, with this cost he will be forced into splitting cache in fuel and munition.

This change would strongly reduce the arty spam in general. Arty player would have to use more wisely their piece of arty, when and where to strike and not simply click the barrage button every two minutes. Opposing players would have to decide if they want/need to hard counter arty or leave it as it is.

Reliable Axis -counter option ( able to one-shot ML20/B4)

Ost:
3 SDB commander with recon(SCAS, Luftwaffe, Elefant)
1 SDB commander with both lefh and SDB
1 fragmentation bomb commander with recon

OKW:
zeroing artillery
assault artillery


Reliable Ally -counter option (able to one-shot LEFH):
SU:
1 IL-2 bombing strike commander with recon( basically no one would pick)


It appears axis have more reliable counter option in commonly used commander. So most of the time, the availability of using munition to reliably safely clear the enemy's cancerous howitzer play is only on axis side.

You forgot USF mechanized commander, reco swip + 155mm arty barrage wreck every piece of artillery.
But you are right, there is a lot more reliable commanders on Axis side to counter static arty.

I have always wondered, why not simply make arty barrage costing munitions and reducing its building price (for example your DBP price cut in half for each arty unit). 100 munitions per barrage for any arty unit (including the priest).
In 4vs4 the guys building Arty is also the one building fuel cache for his mates, with this cost he will be forced into splitting cache in fuel and munition.

This change would strongly reduce the arty spam in general. Arty player would have to use more wisely their piece of arty, when and where to strike and not simply click the barrage button every two minutes. Opposing players would have to decide if they want/need to hard counter arty or leave it as it is.



You forgot USF mechanized commander, reco swip + 155mm arty barrage wreck every piece of artillery.
But you are right, there is a lot more reliable commanders on Axis side to counter static arty.

I doubt that the 155mm arty barrage can one-shot a full health lefh... There is some rng involved. And we know how trash the commander is that nearly no one would pick

I doubt that the 155mm arty barrage can one-shot a full health lefh... There is some rng involved. And we know how trash the commander is that nearly no one would pick

it does, I use it for this purpose. I'm part of the few using it on regular basis.

it does, I use it for this purpose. I'm part of the few using it on regular basis.

So you are forced to pick this commander and give up your late game unit just because your opponent has lefh in their commander loadout. However your opponent is not forced to pick SDB series commander because USF has no ML20.

So you are forced to pick this commander and give up your late game unit just because your opponent has lefh in their commander loadout. However your opponent is not forced to pick SDB series commander because USF has no ML20.

My philosophy is since USF has no late game, I prefer to pick a commander giving me a strong early/mid game than an hypothetical late game solution. I have the Tactical Commander on my loadout only to make them believe I'll use it