We really wanted to change Vet1 to hull down, but it got scoped out. Thus, we're asking if 160HP is going to be enough for its price.
Part of the reason why you might want to use a KV1 is because it comes on commanders with howitzers and skillplanes.
Maybe give it something akin to vector target that enables more frequent use of howitzers? Or, since it's meant to be infantry support/damage sponge kind of tank, maybe some variation of the Churchill smoke:
You could balance the KV1 to be useful with survivability alone, but I don't think it will ever be especially exciting to use. Shame hulldown got cut.
We really wanted to change Vet1 to hull down, but it got scoped out. Thus, we're asking if 160HP is going to be enough for its price.
Part of the reason why you might want to use a KV1 is because it comes on commanders with howitzers and skillplanes.
I would compare it to the churchill. They are very similar in role. The churchill seems to be pretty good, not used a ton but certainly a respectable tank.
The cost difference is 70 manpower, 15 fuel and Anvil tech which is 200 mp 50 fuel. So just look at the stats and see if the KV1 seems like a fair buy in comparison.
Sumnarily the differences are that the Churchill has 440 more HP, 30 less front armor, 20 more rear armor, Slower, Better scatter, better moving accuracy multiplier, Slower reload. Big difference here is the HP pool.
I would suggest 80 more Hp on the kv1. I don't think it will show up much vs t34s in terms of efficiency as presently constituted at 960.
Relic is not allowing us to add abilities to KV-1 that don't already exist in the game. FBP vet1 hull-down made the tank a very good buy; unfortunately it was "scoped". Thus, any changes to the KV-1 will have to be flat stats changes (either at Vet0 or Vet2+).
So what is the consensus regarding the commander? Was adding the KV-1 be sufficient to put the commander on-par with Guards Motor?
Does the KV-1 need additional help, given that it is now only buildable from T4? Is it still too fragile for cost (we don't want to change its lethality, because diversity).
PS: To get the best results out of the commander, avoid upgrading every single Conscript squad with ppsh (1-2 squads max), and try using hit-the-dirt behind heavy cover (for both unupgraded Conscripts and Guards) at every single opportunity.
- PPSH/Hit the dirt feels like a wierd combo as stated in another post. DP28-Hit the dirt (removing orah and at nade on cons feels more likely to succed)
- ml20 like any other arty in game (see lefh for ost/okw) is rarely a viable choice. There are tons of 1-click options to remove it (stuka dive bomb, artillery...). Arty needs to be build in base to force player to rush in for a kill (like coh1) or use indirect fire risking the unit (f.e. pwerfer/stuka/kat/calli). In case it remains the same ml20 won't be build because it's not worth the investment knowing it can be trade off for an average of 150 muni cost for the opponent.
-kv1 does not give any flavor at all to the commander. Needs to be on pair to churchill.
Like mentioned above. In current shape it has no meaning. Not a damage sponde, nor a heavy tank, nor medium tank. You can't mass them becasue they will be useless in numbers opposite to T34s and single one also won't give you anything.
Make it on pair with Churchill and increase price accordingly so even one KV1 has a meaning of a fatty damage sponge. Give it reason to exist becasue currently it has none.
The KV-1 is not exciting to use, but it fills a good role in the SU tank lineup, a sort of "pocket heavy tank". I would pick the KV-1 over the T-34/76 in almost every situation unless I was up against an Elefant or Jagdtiger.
The KV-1 has the same gun as the T-34, but it shoots faster. Also, due to having 960HP and 270 frontal armor, it can bounce the odd Pak 40/Raketenwerfer 43 shot, tank damage, and reliably shrug off Panzer IV shots.
I do not see the need to make it a Churchill clone. A tiny cost decrease would be nice, though probably unnecessary.
So i played 3 games with the commander now, here is my feedback
Kv1: It's quite expensive, but it's also quite good. I like it that it's behind teching now and it's still a good tank. But 145? While you could also make almost 2 t34? On the other hand it still is pretty good. Probably leave it at 145, bcs othwerise it becomes to powerfull. Even tho you gotta tech up for it. I still think it's worth it to go for kv1, if you have double zis for example it's a great combination to go for a kv1.
Guards: . I love the new guards, have played a lot with them. They are not op i think, but they are nice. Vs both infantry and tanks. The grenade doesn't do to much damage, but it's still good to force opponents out of cover or deal a little bit damage so you can win the fight as guards. I like them, dont think they need much more adjusting.
Pphs: Pphs is nice, but only on close corner. On some maps its ofc not worth it, but that's not what its supossed to be so its fine. I just forgot tho, can you use hit the dirt with not upgraded to pphs cons as well? Or not? I think it would be a good ability if hit the dirt was also on non upgraded cons, so you can use them in combination and it might actually be worth it to go on all maps for maybe one pphs at least.
Hit the dirt: I like it. I have the feeling i actually get a bit more cover now and at least the freaking models stand still and don't go dartling around when i don't want them to ^^ . It's not good, but not useluss anymore as well. If you are in cover already. Especially bcs mg's can't surpress you anymore then and you have a chance at killing it.
Howitzer: Idk about the changes for team games, but in 1v1 it's a good change. I think you will see a lot more howitzers now. Bcs it's only 450 mp and 50 fuel is not a too big of an investment if you get a howitzer for it. I think we will see howitzers more, which is nice. It will also mean we maybe get to see other commanders to counter the howitzers, which brings more viarety as well
Sturmovik: Too good. Imo it's too good. The ability lasts long, does a lot ooof damage. The most important thing is that it just lasts too long tho. Especially bcs the planes make one more fly over after the ability is over. You can like deny a whole area for 2 min when it's active. That's a lot imo. Check the replay out to see what i mean: . Maybe a bit less long duration? I think thats the best solution.
I like the new commander. I think it's a good option now as cons are usefull again and guards are 2. And bcs the howitzer is cheaper it's actually an option now!
I just forgot tho, can you use hit the dirt with not upgraded to pphs cons as well? Or not?
Yes you can - I was initially worried that you could only use it with PPSH Cons which would be silly because you're forced to hit the dirt usually at a longer distance which defeats the purpose of PPSH. It's kind of a goofy combo but at the same time it's kind of nice because it's kind of a side perk that lets you use any PPSH commander on more long-range maps where you can just use Hit The Dirt and still get something out of the PPSH Slot in your commander.
Yes you can - I was initially worried that you could only use it with PPSH Cons which would be silly because you're forced to hit the dirt usually at a longer distance which defeats the purpose of PPSH. It's kind of a goofy combo but at the same time it's kind of nice because it's kind of a side perk that lets you use any PPSH commander on more long-range maps where you can just use Hit The Dirt and still get something out of the PPSH Slot in your commander.
So basically this doctrine now has one more thing in it. Why not remove hit the dirt since now the doctrine has the kv1? hit the dirt has something completely different in mind from the ppsh upgraded, why merge them together? I would much rather see the ppsh upgrade give received accuracy bonus instead of hit the dirt...
So i played 3 games with the commander now, here is my feedback
Kv1: It's quite expensive, but it's also quite good. I like it that it's behind teching now and it's still a good tank. But 145? While you could also make almost 2 t34? On the other hand it still is pretty good. Probably leave it at 145, bcs othwerise it becomes to powerfull. Even tho you gotta tech up for it. I still think it's worth it to go for kv1, if you have double zis for example it's a great combination to go for a kv1.
I don't know man, for 145 that's not enough. Maybe a damage or penetration buff?
Relic is not allowing us to add abilities to KV-1 that don't already exist in the game. FBP vet1 hull-down made the tank a very good buy; unfortunately it was "scoped". Thus, any changes to the KV-1 will have to be flat stats changes (either at Vet0 or Vet2+).
At the very least why not buff the hull Mgs to "new" T34 levels? Since I'm pretty sure the KV1 never got the same buff T34s did back when they were made viable.
Kv1: It's quite expensive, but it's also quite good. I like it that it's behind teching now and it's still a good tank. But 145? While you could also make almost 2 t34? On the other hand it still is pretty good. Probably leave it at 145, bcs othwerise it becomes to powerfull. Even tho you gotta tech up for it. I still think it's worth it to go for kv1, if you have double zis for example it's a great combination to go for a kv1.
Can't agree with this.
KV1 is not spammable medium like T34/76, Cromwell or Sherman.
It's not heavy hitting medium like E8 or T34/85.
It's not even damage sponde like Churchill, nor has support abilities for infantry like smoke.
Not to mention that it's just 70MP and 15F cheaper than Churchill which is superior in almost every aspect and it's non-doc.
Personaly I can't think of any other tank in the game that would be so, so pointless, with no purpose. KV's price should be raised a bit and then it should be buffed to somewhere areound Churchill's level of sponge damage or leave it as it is, but give it some support abilities. Otherwise there is no point of using it. Most indistinct tank in game.
Can't agree with this.
KV1 is not spammable medium like T34/76, Cromwell or Sherman.
It's not heavy hitting medium like E8 or T34/85.
It's not even damage sponde like Churchill, nor has support abilities for infantry like smoke.
Not to mention that it's just 70MP and 15F cheaper than Churchill which is superior in almost every aspect and it's non-doc.
Personaly I can't think of any other tank in the game that would be so, so pointless, with no purpose. KV's price should be raised a bit and then it should be buffed to somewhere areound Churchill's level of sponge damage or leave it as it is, but give it some support abilities. Otherwise there is no point of using it. Most indistinct tank in game.
The kv1 as well as the churchill should be seen as heavy tanks (not because of the gun but the armor) and with that said the sweet spot for the kv1 is to counter medium tanks but be countered by 'heavier' tanks like panthers. This way players would have more reasons to tech to tier 4 and get a panther out. One could say that the churchill is a bit too good for it's price tho.
The kv1 as well as the churchill should be seen as heavy tanks (not because of the gun but the armor) and with that said the sweet spot for the kv1 is to counter medium tanks but be countered by 'heavier' tanks like panthers. This way players would have more reasons to tech to tier 4 and get a panther out. One could say that the churchill is a bit too good for it's price tho.
So why would I pick KV1 for this, if I can pick better T34/85?
So why would I pick KV1 for this, if I can pick better T34/85?
Because in theory the t-34-85 should have lower armor but a better gun than the kv1.
This way the kv1 would be perfect to counter mediums because although it's slow it has better armor and thus would bounce more shots from a medium tank and having the same gun as mediums it would pen them without any problem.
On the other hand the t-34-85 is perfect to counter heavier tanks because of it's gun but also because although it has weaker armor it would have the speed to flank heavy tanks and do some real damage.
Because in theory the t-34-85 should have lower armor but a better gun than the kv1.
This way the kv1 would be perfect to counter mediums because although it's slow it has better armor and thus would bounce more shots from a medium tank and having the same gun as mediums it would pen them without any problem.
On the other hand the t-34-85 is perfect to counter heavier tanks because of it's gun but also because although it has weaker armor it would have the speed to flank heavy tanks and do some real damage.
How do you want to counter mediums if half of your shots bounces? If anything, it can keep axis mediums at bay. But still, it's just true for Ostwind and OST Pz 4. Stug and OKW Pz 4 will deal with it any day. Not to mention that it can be easily circled to death by OST Pz4. T35/85 is better option than KV1 in every damn time.
. I love the new guards, have played a lot with them. They are not op i think, but they are nice. Vs both infantry and tanks. The grenade doesn't do to much damage, but it's still good to force opponents out of cover or deal a little bit damage so you can win the fight as guards. I like them, dont think they need much more adjusting. 
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