WBP V1.3 Stuka

Thank you for the video, although it didn't contain anything new for me and my judgement of its performance was therefore not influenced by it.

Now, you say that the stuka is OP for 2v2+, from which follows that it is not op in 1v1. Therefore by issuing such a drastic nerf, it will then be underpowered in 1v1 after the patch hits. Wasn't 1v1 the most important gamemode for balancing?

The primary reasons why you don't see Stuka that often in 1v1 are:
- The pinpoint-accurate attack pattern, which is super-OP vs team weapons is also easy to dodge; especially when armies have the space available to 1v1 maps
- This makes the Stuka barrages hit-or-miss
- You can't afford hit-or-miss stuff, especially if it's pricey

However, the predictable barrage of singular stukas becomes a fucking nightmare to dodge when two or more stukas are involved. Since fog of war visibility and range don't matter, any noob can easily synchronize the barrages. Any map with a long strip of land becomes automatically unplayable. Especially since each well-placed rocket has the potential to wipe an entire squad.

Allied weapon teams also require veterancy to be any use at all. Pak howitzer and the USF AT gun are particularly woeful at that. However, what's the use of amassing veterancy when a single rocket can outright wipe the crew.

If you follow through the changes to Stuka in FBP, we already had the following:
- Reducing the price of the stuka to make it more affordable
- Making an incendiary barrage available earlier to help uncamping
- Reducing the cooldown of barrages
- Increase the reliability of rockets so that near-misses still do some damage
- Make the creeping barrage pattern more tight, so that you can hit emplacements

In return, the just nerfs that Stuka received are:
- Reduced one-hit-kill ratio, to match the fact that the Stuka issues no warning about where it is aiming (unlike Katyusha)
- Scatter now scales with distance to the target; so that you can't rely on max-range barrages anymore
- Scatter now penalized when firing in fog of war. Ditto.

IMO those changes would make the Stuka a lot more viable in 1v1, and a lot less cancerous elsewhere. Do you agree with that treatment or not?

Additional reasons why you don't see Stuka, particular to 1v1 are:
- Everybody goes luchs
- Nobody has fuel to throw around, when everybody has to fight using call-ins

Massed Panthers are not a problem in 1v1 or 2v2, same for elefant and jagdtiger!

Panthers were actually buffed as far as 1v1 is concerned. OST one got an AT boost and a hefty AI improvement. The OKW one got a price decrease .As far as I'm concerned Panthers don't spawn starting at vet2.

Panther spam in 3v3+ will (hopefully) be reigned in by their new popcap, and normalize repair speeds.

And why don't you address the problems of 4v4 and 3v3 in a smarter way, like changing the ressource inflation in those modes by changing caches or ressource points?

Resource inflation won't help. If anything it will make camping and mortar (pit) spam even more cancerous than before, since there are fewer MP-heavy stuff to counter them.

Make axis rocket launcher like LM or caliope/ katjuscha and all is fine....

its all the time a priceless moment when you hammer axis squads with allie rocket launchers....

why get axis such miss-or-hit options while aliies have their easy-to-use-and-kill-warranty on their launchers?


i dont need to aim whith allies launchers...if u dont do that with axis launchers...you will fail hard.

Make axis rocket launcher like LM or caliope/ katjuscha and all is fine....

its all the time a priceless moment when you hammer axis squads with allie rocket launchers....

why get axis such miss-or-hit options while aliies have their easy-to-use-and-kill-warranty on their launchers?


i dont need to aim whith allies launchers...if u dont do that with axis launchers...you will fail hard.

#Assymetrical balance.

Maybe if all factions were copypastas with different skins you would finally be happy ...

The primary reasons why you don't see Stuka that often in 1v1 are:...

agreed

However, the predictable barrage of singular stukas becomes a fucking nightmare to dodge when two or more stukas are involved.

agreed, but the problem is not that the barrage is too powerfull, but that the player can easily get 2 of them

If you follow through the changes to Stuka in FBP, we already had the following:
...
IMO those changes would make the Stuka a lot more viable in 1v1, and a lot less cancerous elsewhere. Do you agree with that treatment or not?

if the ressources in 3v3 and 4v4 stay the same, then yes, absolutely. However, this is not the treatment it got in the DBP, unfortunately

Additional reasons why you don't see Stuka, particular to 1v1 are:
- Nobody has fuel to throw around, when everybody has to fight using call-ins

again: resource inflation enables that in 3v3+

Resource inflation won't help. If anything it will make camping and mortar (pit) spam even more cancerous than before, since there are fewer MP-heavy stuff to counter them.

could you maybe elaborate that a little more. I have trouble understanding it, because reducing the amount of fuel gained by caches for example would have no real effect on the early game, and little effect on the timing of the first stuka (which can counter campers), while in the middle to lategame, where loads of caches are built on both sides, it would have the desired effect.

Also OKW has the LeIG which is also an MP-heavy counter to camping. Last but not least the amount of camping in 4v4 is mostly due to lacking player ability, which AFAIK cannot be patched


i heavily doubt that panther spam won't be a problem anymore for example. but lets see how it plays out!

edit: a little more on the stuka example. first stuka comes out relatively unchanged, second stuka quite a bit later. this would lead to a lack of AT, which can be easier exploited than if the player can get a panther fast due to caches

#Assymetrical balance.

Maybe if all factions were copypastas with different skins you would finally be happy ...

balance? where is the balance between LM and PW?


pw cost double fuel --but has only 30% efficence from a LM

they are from two worlds.

what do u mean is
#less skill need with allie rocketlauncher

everytime i play with allie rocket launchers...its feels op, compared to axis options

balance? where is the balance between LM and PW?


pw cost double fuel --but has only 30% efficence from a LM

they are from two worlds.

what do u mean is
#less skill need with allie rocketlauncher

everytime i play with allie rocket launchers...its feels op, compared to axis options

Mattress cannot wipe, only if you are extra lucky or your opponent it ignorant, because of its scatter.

Pqwerfer can if you get it to the frontlines.

One is a area denial too, another is more of a blob control machine.


Also mattress is slow team weapon that is HARDCOUNTERED by all other rocket artillery. It is one of few team weapons that can be destroyed even before it is decrewed. Also it cannot escape tanks and can be towed by your enemies.

Mattress cannot wipe, only if you are extra lucky or your opponent it ignorant, because of its scatter.

Pqwerfer can if you get it to the frontlines.

One is a area denial too, another is more of a blob control machine.


Also mattress is slow team weapon that is HARDCOUNTERED by all other rocket artillery. It is one of few team weapons that can be destroyed even before it is decrewed. Also it cannot escape tanks and can be towed by your enemies.

Mattres can wipe weapon teams like stuka.

Mattres can wipe weapon teams like stuka.

But is stuka a team weapon ? No

All rocket pieces hardcounter mattress while mattress hardcounters none of them

But is stuka a team weapon ? No

All rocket pieces hardcounter mattress while mattress hardcounters none of them

Except of course the current suggestion is that two stray rockets should finish off the 100 fuel Stuka.

Except of course the current suggestion is that two stray rockets should finish off the 100 fuel Stuka.

This is very unlikely. Run a test and see how often wipes land mattress a stuka

EDIT: Btw who are you, cant you give us a brief info about yourself by giving us your playercard ?


You are theorycrafting so much, tell me please that there is a similar chance that mattress will kill a stuka as a stuka will wipe a mattress.

It is pure luck to kill stuka with mattress, even with 160hp

Ah, requesting playercard and accusing theorycrafting.

To put playercards in context, Hector has a grand amount one (1) 4v4 as OKW.

What's next, that I have also approached you indecently 25 years ago?

Ah, requesting playercard and accusing theorycrafting.

To put playercards in context, Hector has a grand amount one (1) 4v4 as OKW.

What's next, that I have also approached you indecently 25 years ago?

I have played a lot 4v4s and 2v2s lately, both sides. They were costum matches testing DBP.

You can ask anyone from these guys and they will tell you that they have played with me:

Zarok, Smith, Frost, Fortune, Kryptic, SexPistole, OrangePest,...


I have also watched streams of (best 4v4 axis player) Sturmpanther so I get the idea how things worth at A++ enviroment at well

Another fact is that I have my playercard shown so you know about me, who I am. I dont know anything about you. Maybe you are but an alt account or you dont own coh at all

Yes, it is therycraft that Matress can regularly kill Stuka. It is more likely 3 or 4 stray rockets because you will never hit the same place with 2 rockets in a row so you has to take into account aoe damage = decrease damage as well.

If you have any facts that support your claim that Stuka is as good against mattress and mattress is good against stuka then bring em on. Until then it will remain only and only a theorycraft.

And please do not assault and accuse other people when you run out of logical arguments to cover your a**

If Hector's 4v4 stats are not sufficient mine will be. Feel free to post your playercard when ready

(speaking as one of the most experienced 3v3 / 4v4 random players right now in terms of automatch)

Its gets even better.

Played a single 4vs4 with OKW, watched YouTube videos. Thinks has immense experience with teamgames.

Accuses with theorycrafting, but claims 160 hitpoint on short ranged rocket arty is no issue.

I have about 900 team game matches, cc. 1/3 Allied, 2/3 Axis. Dunno how much I have in COH1, I guess a couple there as well. While you play 1vs1 95% of time, haven't even played a single ranked match for two weeks yet come here to lecture others what happens in team matches.

Its gets even better.

Played a single 4vs4 with OKW, watched YouTube videos. Thinks has immense experience with teamgames.

Accuses with theorycrafting, but claims 160 hitpoint on short ranged rocket arty is no issue.

I have about 900 team game matches, cc. 1/3 Allied, 2/3 Axis. Dunno how much I have in COH1, I guess a couple there as well. While you play 1vs1 95% of time, haven't even played a single ranked match for two weeks yet come here to lecture others what happens in team matches.

If you have so many games, why cant you simply provide us with playercard so we know you are not lying ?


To support myself.

A) I am a player with great game knowledge- countless games played in top tier 1v1 envirnment and 3 guides so I know even unit from front to back.

B) I have played enough 2v2s and 4v4s to be able to see in practive how things work there. You dont need to play millions of 4v4 games to see how things work if you are already a top tier 1v1 player with great game knowledge.

I have 2 years of 1v1 top tier games, many guides and reviews, and lots of 4v4 and 2v2 costum matches and videos that support my claims.

You have NOTHING, because you refuse to show us yourself as a coh2 player, want to remain in ANONYMITY, yet you want to talk about the BALANCE.

But is stuka a team weapon ? No

All rocket pieces hardcounter mattress while mattress hardcounters none of them

thats the thing, you kill a land mattress with rocket artillery and the enemy can just recrew it

thats the thing, you kill a land mattress with rocket artillery and the enemy can just recrew it

He will have to repair it or it will die eventually, because it is one of team weapons that can be destroyed even while crewed.

Like 2 stuka barrages if he refuses to repair it should be enough

thats the thing, you kill a land mattress with rocket artillery and the enemy can just recrew it

Especially as v1.3 also nerfed the damage to the weapon (i.e. LM, mg) itself to 50% to preven the weapon being destroyed and thus available for being recrewed. Which is the more sensible part of the nerf. Nerfing it 160 HP is not. The Stuka cannot be recrewed if destroyed.

He will have to repair it or it will die eventually, because it is one of team weapons that can be destroyed even while crewed.

Like 2 stuka barrages if he refuses to repair it should be enough

wow wish i could recrew my stuka......

Its gets even better.

Played a single 4vs4 with OKW, watched YouTube videos. Thinks has immense experience with teamgames.

Accuses with theorycrafting, but claims 160 hitpoint on short ranged rocket arty is no issue.

I have about 900 team game matches, cc. 1/3 Allied, 2/3 Axis. Dunno how much I have in COH1, I guess a couple there as well. While you play 1vs1 95% of time, haven't even played a single ranked match for two weeks yet come here to lecture others what happens in team matches.

Hector has far more of a clue what hes talking about compared to you

But since team game stats are important to you, I've got around 1600 games in 3v3 and 4v4, 10 rank <17s including two rank 1s.

So, post your playercard please. Put your money where your mouth is

For what its worth, in all the games I have played recently, I'd say the landmatress has been in about 10% of them, but the stuka is probably around 50%, In 4v4 its always built.