Stuka dive bombing in DBP

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The stuka dive bombing in the patch is not cost efficient:

Compared to railway artillery it get 1 shot of 400 vs 3 shot of 600 damage (x450% more damage potential), has a smaller Kill AOE (damage 80).

The have the same cost and CP, and Railway artillery.

It can not kill a artillery piece (only decrew it) while cheaper abilities can and does little damage to emplacements that can survive direct his unbraced.

If this is true then the ability deserves a serious buff

If this is true then the ability deserves a serious buff

Or a redesign, I would rather see become a doctrinal counter to emplacements having a multiplier vs such targets.

How does it fare when compared to the IL-2 bombing that soviets get? It always stroke me that the stuka was cheaper, harder to dodge and more lethal. Don't know the full stats though.

I think its important to note that stuka dive bomb is the only off map that doesn't feature a warning smoke and so it has to be more expensive for the damage it does. Still, it should be able to one-shot artillery as long as other expensive off maps can.

It can not kill a artillery piece (only decrew it)

Wait what? Since when?

Wait what? Since when?

It seem that that was incorrect, Ml20 has 400 HP same at the damage of stuka in the near AOE (3.75?). A direct hit (within of 3.75) will kill it.

How does it fare when compared to the IL-2 bombing that soviets get? It always stroke me that the stuka was cheaper, harder to dodge and more lethal. Don't know the full stats though.

Il-2 drops 4 bombs (around 320 damage each?). A direct strike on Tiger will usally deal from 600-900 damage. While a Is-2 will take less than half damage from a stuka direct hit.

In live most killing ability of the Stuka comes from a critical on infantries making it better only vs infantries ,this feature has been removed in patch.

I think its important to note that stuka dive bomb is the only off map that doesn't feature a warning smoke and so it has to be more expensive for the damage it does. Still, it should be able to one-shot artillery as long as other expensive off maps can.

Railway give little warning also. In the patch if far more cost efficient ability.

The man issues of Stuka dive bomb is that it is available with Elephant and has low CD (and critical that has been removed).

Railway give little warning also. In the patch if far more cost efficient ability.

How does railway give little warning? It has the smoke precisely where first shell is going to hit and long time of arrival. It is the perfect example of full scale warning.

How does railway give little warning? It has the smoke precisely where first shell is going to hit and long time of arrival. It is the perfect example of full scale warning.

If smoke justifies so much less damage, simply give smoke to the ability and adjust.

(Stuka does give a sound warning which becomes louder to point of impact. one could add mini map warning)

Il-2 drops 4 bombs (around 320 damage each?). A direct strike on Tiger will usally deal from 600-900 damage. While a Is-2 will take less than half damage from a stuka direct hit.

There are a few very important differences though.
1) the il-2 drop is a plane drop, it moves in from off map
2) the plane can be shot down
3) it will take longer depending on how long the distance is for the plane
4) there is the warning smoke
5) it's almost impossible to have 2-3 bombs on a tiger unless you manage to ram it at the exactly right moment and have the ram stun or manage to immobilise the vehicle in some other way

The stuka dive bomb was overperforming for its former price because it reliably always takes the same (rather low) time to land and there is no smoke warning, so it can be missed. The crit was quite crazy, due to the radius. Support weapons, like mgs and at guns had almost no chance to get out in time, even if you were fast to react.

There are a few very important differences though.
1) the il-2 drop is a plane drop, it moves in from off map
2) the plane can be shot down

I doubt that even if it shot down(?) it will fail to deliver the payload.

3) it will take longer depending on how long the distance is for the plane
4) there is the warning smoke

Stuka dived bomb always take very long to deliver payload and hit anything not stationary more luck then anything else.
(around 15 secs?)
And there is warning sound.

5) it's almost impossible to have 2-3 bombs on a tiger unless you manage to ram it at the exactly right moment and have the ram stun or manage to immobilise the vehicle in some other way

Actually that is map related and vehicle speed depended. Its actually very easy to hit Super heavy axis tank in map with corridors (usually urban)

Combined with "mark Target" both available in 1 commander and the result are devastating.

IL-2 and Stuka are different abilities in different faction and that is why I am comparing it with Gustav.

The stuka dive bomb was overperforming for its former price because it reliably always takes the same (rather low) time to land and there is no smoke warning, so it can be missed. The crit was quite crazy, due to the radius. Support weapons, like mgs and at guns had almost no chance to get out in time, even if you were fast to react.

It was OP, in the Patch it is UP.

Planes shot down before delivering their payloads will not deliver them and you lose the ammo. This has been true since day one of the game, I don't understand how this is not clear to people.

Warning sound is easy as piss to spot and react to in 1v1s and 2v2s, where you are very aware of the enemies' sightlines. In a 4v4 you cannot be certain where it is aimed, or if it is even aimed at you. The delay is 12 seconds before hitting but the sound starts around 8 seconds before impact. Waiting even a few seconds to confirm where it will drop means you CANNOT get support weapons out of the instakill radius. This means that in effect any Stuka click in 4v4 forces THE ENTIRE ENEMY TEAM to have to immediately reposition or retreat any weapon teams, or risk eating the Stuka at full force. This is the real advantage of the "warning sound, but no smoke" type of ability and this is why anyone who uses warning sound as an excuse that balances out the smoke is full of it.

And I will argue that even for 200 ammo, one-click deleting static 600 manpower arty without counterplay should not happen, regardless of faction. Stuka, IL-2 and other abilities should ideally decrew a howitzer, and leave it at ~10% hit points, with a main gun critical that forbids barraging until completely fixed.

That way if you really need that arty piece dead, you'll have to put in the effort of farting in its general direction with any unit in your arsenal before clicking that offmap button.

Removing the critical and giving a slight damage boost to far end multiplier does not make it underpowered. It was just stupid with that instant death critical that no other off map has. The price increase was possibly unecessary, I'd much rather see a longer cooldown between dive bombs, than a price increase. At the stage when it becomes a problem, ost usually has no further need of ammo if they aren't losing infantry weapons. So 180 or 200 it doesn't make much of a difference. I hardly use the ability when I play ost, pretty much only to hit ML20 sites.

Any though on the performance of the ability in Patch?

Removing the critical and giving a slight damage boost to far end multiplier does not make it underpowered. It was just stupid with that instant death critical that no other off map has. The price increase was possibly unecessary, I'd much rather see a longer cooldown between dive bombs, than a price increase. At the stage when it becomes a problem, ost usually has no further need of ammo if they aren't losing infantry weapons. So 180 or 200 it doesn't make much of a difference. I hardly use the ability when I play ost, pretty much only to hit ML20 sites.

(If one forgets the smoke for thing for a sec) the ability is far less cost efficient than railroad artillery and thus UP.

Damage Far went from 20 to 32.

I agree that cool-down should be increased (and have suggested it).

I don't understand why you are bringing railway arty into the discussion. They are different abilities with different strengths.

Any though on the performance of the ability in Patch?

To be honest, I haven't seen it in the DBP, so I will refrain from offering uninformed opinions on how it is now.

Lol some people dare asking buff best one click wipe ability with no counterplay...

I don't understand why you are bringing railway arty into the discussion. They are different abilities with different strengths.

No they are not, they are almost identical , one is baptized "plane" the other "artillery", Stuka gets 1 hit, Gustav gets 3 that are actually stronger.

Lol some people dare asking buff best one click wipe ability with no counterplay...

Have you tested the ability in DBP? any thought on it?

Interesting definition of stronger, unless you think that people actually hang around to get hit by the second and third shots from railway.

Railway is 1 shot on target + 2 somewhere random:
600 damage, aoe radius 12, lethal radius ~5.6 for first shot
600 damage, aoe radius 12, lethal radius ~8.1 for two following ones

Patched Stuka
750 damage, aoe radius 15, lethal radius ~10.9
EDIT wrong weapon, curse Relic and their inability to follow a simple naming convention:
400 damage, aoe radius 15, lethal radius ~9.7

Unpatched Stuka has a lethal radius of 15. The patched version would still have 3 times the area of lethal damage compared to the railway.

EDIT: fixing lethal radiuses, me bad at math

how about Stuka loiter from sector assualt with stationary weapon or emplacement as first priority