December Balance Preview

Jump back to quoted post12 Dec 2017, 17:39 PMZombiFrancis

Maybe so. Most of my friends quit playing almost altogether after brits, and none of them have come back. None of the patches since have been enough to convince any of them to come back beyond a game or two.
And in most cases those games have reinforced their decision to not bother with coh2.

This is the perspective I have. I'm the weird guy who never left and I'm particularly aware of the survivor bias in these balance forums and patches.

Jump back to quoted post12 Dec 2017, 17:37 PMStug life

in the video there's not only falls he didi it for all units ober too
maybe leave close damage the same and lower the mid one ?

Jump back to quoted post12 Dec 2017, 17:45 PMMr.Smith

The only engagement that was particularly troubling was the Falls vs PPSh cons one, and we know for granted that Falls +15% accuracy modifier at Vet5 is not applying properly at all.

It's probably OK if yolorushing shot-range units can win with a sliver of health on a test-lab scenario. That's because in the live game you would never wait it out until the end. A short-range unit has to commit to a fight, and if their retreat path is cut off in the meantime, they risk being wiped. A long range unit can always throw grenades from their cover, or retreat after they've inflicted enough bleed.

Long-range units also perform far better in a blob than short-range units.

PS:
We also strongly suspect that hit the dirt is rather OP, and we'll probably further reduce the RA bonus it gives to bring it a bit more inline.

Jump back to quoted post12 Dec 2017, 14:45 PMMr.Smith

This solution is identical to increasing MechHQ build time by an equal amount of seconds.

Jump back to quoted post12 Dec 2017, 14:45 PMMr.Smith

The solution will simply not work because people are just going to adjust their build order to put the MechHQ truck 15-20 seconds before they would normally do. Then, it would only take 1 week for people to finetune their build order, and we're back to luchs-rush meta.

Unless MechHQ build time increases to beyond 3 minutes (which would be retarded), it won't have any effect on delaying the Luchs.

Jump back to quoted post12 Dec 2017, 14:45 PMMr.Smith

A more long-term sustainable solution would be to redesign what goes in OKW T0, OKW T1 and OKW T2 so that tiers actually have both long-term value and present interesting trade-offs (rather than I go T2 for Luchs rush/Stuka and T1 for healing, and forget about T1/T2 units for the rest of the game). However, we aren't allowed to do this; especially at this point.

Jump back to quoted post12 Dec 2017, 17:54 PMDangerous-Cloth

No it isn't. Since when you add total build time to the MechHQ, you delay all other units. With the timer on the luchs, you only delay the only problem in that tier.

Jump back to quoted post12 Dec 2017, 17:54 PMDangerous-Cloth

Why not make its accuracy on the move less good? And make it less nimble? The current problem with it is that it can push units of the field, chase them and wipe them reliably and get away fast when trouble arrives. The unit however needs a window of opportunity without its hard counters there.

Jump back to quoted post12 Dec 2017, 15:28 PMZombiFrancis

CoH2 is strategically shallow, and it has always been.

Players have, outside their initial build order one real meaningful decision: their first fuel investment.

Buffing and nerfing that one decision players can make won't change the landscape of players really having no strategic diversity to begin with.

It is not the luchs fault that strategy is shallow in coh2.

Jump back to quoted post12 Dec 2017, 17:45 PMMr.Smith

The only engagement that was particularly troubling was the Falls vs PPSh cons one, and we know for granted that Falls +15% accuracy modifier at Vet5 is not applying properly at all.

It's probably OK if yolorushing shot-range units can win with a sliver of health on a test-lab scenario. That's because in the live game you would never wait it out until the end. A short-range unit has to commit to a fight, and if their retreat path is cut off in the meantime, they risk being wiped. A long range unit can always throw grenades from their cover, or retreat after they've inflicted enough bleed.

Long-range units also perform far better in a blob than short-range units.

PS:
We also strongly suspect that hit the dirt is rather OP, and we'll probably further reduce the RA bonus it gives to bring it a bit more inline.

Jump back to quoted post12 Dec 2017, 18:35 PMRussianHamster

Other inf squads here. Problem are not in conscripts. Rifles looks especially funny.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/208969206

Jump back to quoted post12 Dec 2017, 18:35 PMRussianHamster

Other inf squads here. Problem are not in conscripts. Rifles looks especially funny.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/208969206

Jump back to quoted post12 Dec 2017, 18:26 PMMr.Smith

If only the solution to non-linear teching had not been staring us in the eyes for many years now...

Jump back to quoted post12 Dec 2017, 18:54 PMjagd wölfe

Vet 5 falls losing to ptrs penals, bar rifle and bren tommies, why are you surprised ? the game finally reached fully balanced form.

Jump back to quoted post12 Dec 2017, 19:03 PMferwiner

Why exactly should more expensive, considering both ammo and manpower, long range AI specialist squad lose to an all range infiltration squad at long range? That would be mad. Same goes with commandos, they are also infiltration squad, but they are much, much more expensive with brens.

Would you also be surprised by a sniper losing in that position

Jump back to quoted post12 Dec 2017, 19:03 PMferwiner

Why exactly should more expensive, considering both ammo and manpower, long range AI specialist squad lose to an all range infiltration squad at long range? That would be mad. Same goes with commandos, they are also infiltration squad, but they are much, much more expensive with brens.

Would you also be suprised by a sniper losing in that position

Jump back to quoted post12 Dec 2017, 19:07 PMStug life

I think it's because commando are cc units wipe machine while falls are "supposed" to be long mid range units cause they lose even to ppsh cons rushing them while in green cover, they should excel in something be close mid or long range, but they can't even beat RM

Jump back to quoted post12 Dec 2017, 19:10 PMRussianHamster

Here was a tommies and rifles, which you will have in most of all game agains UKF and USF. And problem are in, which a basic infantry squad can become stronger than elite infantery.
I know what commandos have more cost and need ammo for brens, but if need be they can pick brens and annihilate enemies on every range, while falls cant do nothing to be stronger.

A mandatory supply yard construct/upgrade to OKW teching would do so much to alleviate the pain that is the MedHQ/MechHQ fork.

- Or, each tier is self-sufficient, but there's FU/MP trade-offs to make to access all the tools (e.g., USF if we swap Stuart with AAHT).

Jump back to quoted post12 Dec 2017, 19:15 PMferwiner

They excel at infiltration. Using them from hidden position with bundle nade or blendkorpfer is a good way of wiping squads, as their all range guns are really good at finishing weak models. They can also use camo to flank the enemy as he positions his troops along directional cover to repel volk blob.

In defence they are just as good as an lmg squad which is quite well considering their abilities. They are never ment for long outslaughts or frontal attacks. They also are not a good blob material. And that is exactly what we expect from them in a ballanced form.



Falls have better choice of granades than commandos, better profile of base weapon and AT capabilities. Is that really that little? Mind that base cost of falls is 360 (without the infiltration fee) and they even get 10% discount on reinforce.

But I actually agree that infiltration commandos got buffed too much in DBP.

Jump back to quoted post12 Dec 2017, 19:24 PMStug life

so do commado and even better beging a 5 man squad and with wipe potential that can still come out of houses while falls now need some sort of scouting to not die (they drop like para while being 4 man)

Jump back to quoted post12 Dec 2017, 17:45 PMMr.Smith

The only engagement that was particularly troubling was the Falls vs PPSh cons one, and we know for granted that Falls +15% accuracy modifier at Vet5 is not applying properly at all.