December Balance Preview

Wow at the JT nerf.

Like, VERY wow.

I get it that it can be very strong in team games but lets take a look at this:

Jagdtiger
To decrease the on field dominance of the Jagdtiger against Allied tanks, the unit has received the following changes. To help keep the unit useful vs infantry, the Supporting Fire ability has received some performance enhancements.


Damage reduced from 320 to 300

So in conjunction with jackson HP buff, this will result in 3 hit KO. Even with their price increase,
a few jacksons will make mincemeat out of JT even with good support because the unit is inherently slow to begin with regarding movement/rotation/firing speed at vet 0-1.

It's a Pak 44 128mm. It should feel very strong to compensate for the horrible speedt

Accuracy reduced from 0.06/0.05/0.04 to 0.055/0.045/0.03

Why is this even necessary? Reload is very slow until vet 3 which is hardly seen.

Range reduced from 85 to 80

This is the most reasonable nerf to the unit

Supporting Fire range reduced from 125 to 95

Same as above comment

Engine upgrade rotation bonus removed

Great now my grandmother moves faster than this thing. Its already painfully slow even with the upgrade, only at vet 3 does it attain good rotation speed

Pop-cap increased from 21 to 23

Fusiliers are already cheap so if it stays that way this is ok


Supporting Fire ability now available at Vet 0

very hit or miss buff this is a ability that's very easy to avoid

Vet 1 replaced with Supporting Fire Barrage shells increased from 3 to 5

Nice to have but again not practical



I could understand a tweak or two but good god man this makes the unit practically unusable in a serious game with all of these changes. Improving the AI abilities on the unit wont help as its a very situational and easy to avoid ability. I really hope they do not implement all of these changes...

What if you get a map where the Elephant and JT are not good?

Apparently spam panthers that are working as intended.

...

lul jackson finally will be now actually worth getting for its price and all axis fanboys go batshit crazy. USF atleast will now have a tank destroyer that can do its job instead of being mostly a paper tank that gets shit on by a single 90 fuel stug that is rushing towards it and pretty much everything else with 3 shots. And USF will be now actually playable in teamgames instead of it being the weakest faction in team games. Thanks god sturmpioneer stgs are not able to pen its armour lel

V1.1 and Release:http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1188134341

Show Spoiler

640! Hp Jackson AND Elephant JT nerf monkaOMEGA

I admittedly been out of it for a bit but i remember allies being utterly batshit overpowered in every mode. This patch seems to confirm that hasn’t changed and axis will continue to be pretty aids to play.
allies are entirely too much of a vacation all around...Jackson 640 hp?? Hello? uhh that thing microed by anyone with a brain will simply not die. Especially when the panther, JT, AND ELEPHANT all get the nerf bat. Makes wins unsatisfying, unrewarding...like beating on a dying infant.
game is unplayable competitively and any sort of long term enjoyment is lost when you can only really enjoy one side. Faction selection will be gg

mod team does do a good job on bug fixes and QOL

Since the last patch, 1v1/2v2 was practically the same (what changed was metas) with UKF on 2v2 not been an autowin. 2v2+ was basically OKW winning more and OH joining on the train.

It can't subscribe.

Edit:nvm

With the current tech adjustments for Ostheer, the sturmpanzer iv needs to be looked at. It is too good of a unit, which was ofset by the hard teching route of the Ostheer. With the new changes, this downside is now gone.

Also, stuka divebomb was fixed, any changes in the works for demo insta wipe units?

Also, why buff conscripts, which will now further hamper Ostheer since every base line infantry now shits on Grens, when the problem for cons was the overperforming volks and in general the luchs.

Then don't use those commanders. It's not like you are forced to use them 24/7.

I forgot I need to spam panthers to deal with the hordes of allied tanks

While I'm conflicted on some of the 1.0 changes, I think I really like basically all of the 1.1 changes. With the panther being far more accessible, i can see the 1.0 panther changes being easier to stomache. That said, maybe one thing is to keep sturmpioneers repair speed at a similar cost efficiency to the other factions? (roughly 200 manpower for 1.6 repair speed, so since sturmpios are 300 manpower then 2.4 repair speed?)

Those teching changes should really help Ost get access to those nigh unreachable Panthers.

But when they do, I'll be ready with my buffed Jackson. Have at thee!

I must be missing something about ostheer tech costs? Basically just redistributed the tech costs so that you need to invest more early so your fuel is locked into the upgrade instead of into a piece of armor

I must be missing something about ostheer tech costs? Basically just redistributed the tech costs so that you need to invest more early so your fuel is locked into the upgrade instead of into a piece of armor

The idea seems to be that early game when no tanks can be built, you'll have saved up quite a bit of fuel to tech up to your goal anyways. In the later stages, fuel can be hard to obtain since you obtain it in small chunks and spent most of it earlier on a tank. So you can make small investments until you are able to fully afford a panther upgrade (Without hurting your ability to respond to your opponent by building a T3 tank).

I must be missing something about ostheer tech costs? Basically just redistributed the tech costs so that you need to invest more early so your fuel is locked into the upgrade instead of into a piece of armor

The cost-shifting now allows for the following:
- You either only pay 200MP and 50FU after you built T3 so that you can also have T4
- Or, if you initially skip T3 and build T4, you can backteck to T3 for only 140(?)MP and 15FU.

The equivalent live-version costs for those teching paths are massively bigger. Thus, they've been reduced, and it becomes safe to have both T3 and T4 at the same time.

You can use that advantage to attempt a Panther/Brummbar rush. If this doesn't seem to be working out, you backtech to T3 and get, e.g., a Stug out.

Similarly, if you can't afford a T4 rush, you go normally through T3. Then, when the situation starts picking up, you tech up to T4, and start mixing T4 units to your composition.

What if you get a map where the Elephant and JT are not good?

You get panther/ST/tiger/KT
in map where ele or JT are not good, will be problem with pathing, its will be like in train, like in TruaPon, but even there players use ele or JT.

How about removing mg upgrade from panther?
I mean seriously, nobody is going for panther to deal anything else except armor.
And it will remove that BS excuse for calling panther a generalist tank. And then they can improve him to be a better tank hunter. When that is going to be his only job, to hunt tanks.

Su76 has 180 pen IIRC at 60 range which means it has >50% chance to pen at max range. In t3, and for half the fuel cost of a JP4. Not to mention the free barrage. SU85 has no problems penning a panther at max range either.

Flipping a (slightly unfair) coin to see whether something penetrates or not is not what anyone would call reliable or even remotely a good option, and the su76 is not supposed to be one against the panther in the first place. Then there are the classic problems that everyone knows from handling either stugs or SUs: fixed turret, rotation speed, pathing, low health. Last but not least to have the flip of a coin decide whether it will penetrate or not it needs to hit first as well.

The SU85's problem is not penetration but the same you'll have with a stug facing off against a comet. It has problems navigating and hitting against a fast tank. It's also tier 4 and my point was that cheaper teching might cause problems because soviets might not be able to field a counter.

https://www.coh2.org/replay/65019/dbp-1-1-elite-armor-vs-nkvd

The map is the updated version.

We didnt feel the cons changes, i felt that it was really easy to dominate cons early game, the panther still ok, it comes faster now but i had early fuel control so i didnt notice the changes in the price, same with the sturmtiger maybe could change the vet 1 grenade launcher ability, it seems kinda useless, maxim was ok acording to tomas, he didnt notice the molotov change but i did, now that it comes with the at nade it will be more used. I noticed that the t35/76 now comes with the fuel tanks that 85s had but it wasnt mentioned in the notes. Kubel seemed ok but i didnt try it vs other factions, gotta see vs usf and brits. I also noticed that the medics of the battlegroup hq seemed to go further, was the range modied like the fbp? Elite armor commnader seems perfect, except for that tank commander that seems kinda underpowered, could be changed or change it for other thing? The new garrison system feels kinda weird but gotta test it more. The repair speed didnt feel like a big change also but i had the mechanized engineers so maybe was because of that. NKVD strafe is good but the other abilities make the commander feel like it has little inpact.

Ps: what are the posibilities on changing demos?

@Mr. Smith & Miragefla. Tested double tap abilities that I know of. You got the ones that were more publically known, but missed some that are not.

Cromwell and comet can both shoot a standard round and then fire off a smoke in quick succession. The 2nd round is not lethal because it's smoke but I think this works well this way; good for hit and run.

M26 Pershing has had its burst reduced but it definatly has a faster reload for the HVAP. It's pretty alright though, 5 second reload or soemthing.

Got the M10 and Jackson double taps. Issue with jackson is that because of the reload speed of the unit and the ability time it's pretty difficult to get off any more than 2 HVAP. Used to get off 3 but stopping the aim time after an ability is used (which is a rough guess to how you nerfed certain units that have these abilities) makes it take a bit more time.

KT good now. JT is in the same spot as pershing, can still get a APCBC shot off a bit faster but it's nothing major.

Elephant has a major bug out issue. If you pop TWP directly after a standard goes out, the result effect will not not allow the elephant to shoot for ~18 SECONDS! think it has something to do with the 10 second duration of TWP and the ~9 second reload of the elephant. So once the ability ends it wants to reload a standard round or something. It's weird. Could extend TWP ability by like 1-2 seconds to avoid that.

A unit that isn't know to "double tap" well is the scott. but it can use it's barrage and auto attack a lot similar to the way the ISG used to put out 2 rounds in quick succession but now is nerfed. Standard shot then barrage.

That's all I found. Good work!

This makes sense. But what I still dont get is why the Panther wasn´t completly overhauled. Panthers are and will only be useful after vet 2. Before vet 2 they are just not cost-effective enough. Vet 2 Panthers are imo quite OP in the live version because of their speed (vet 1 blitz) and survivability, especially against Soviets who lack elite AT options. I dont think that´s a good unit design. I would have liked the removal of the op vet 2 buff but in compensation of that accuracy and ROF buff for the vet 0 panther.

Agree with this analysis , VET 2 panthers are a bit much, but before that they are expensive, miss a lot, and generally don't perform well.. so buff vet 0!!

640! Hp Jackson AND Elephant JT nerf monkaOMEGA

I admittedly been out of it for a bit but i remember allies being utterly batshit overpowered in every mode. This patch seems to confirm that hasn’t changed and axis will continue to be pretty aids to play.
allies are entirely too much of a vacation all around...Jackson 640 hp?? Hello? uhh that thing microed by anyone with a brain will simply not die. Especially when the panther, JT, AND ELEPHANT all get the nerf bat. Makes wins unsatisfying, unrewarding...like beating on a dying infant.
game is unplayable competitively and any sort of long term enjoyment is lost when you can only really enjoy one side. Faction selection will be gg

mod team does do a good job on bug fixes and QOL

+1

Jackson needed a speed/acceleration buff to fulfil it's intended role, not 640 HP buff.