December Balance Preview

My flamehetzer spawned from the hq lol. Is this a bug? Didn't save the replay.

Tbh demos are another game mechanic that doesn't work in multiplayer unless it's in the form of the "destroy cover" ability. I would just remove demos, what really interesting and strategic diversity do they actually give to the game? no skill one click wiping squads? hmm yeah...

Demos have always been a huge blight on this game which few have had the balls to try and change largely because of the argument that soviets couldn't deal with blobs. Thr problem however is other parts of the soviet army couldn't be balanced properly because there was always the probability than 1 demo could give the soviets an unassailable lead.

Same issue exists with penals and satchels.

Both should have 10 sec timers and a lower cost ofc and be used solely to blow up structures caches abandoned weapons ect.

Both should have 10 sec timers and a lower cost ofc and be used solely to blow up structures caches abandoned weapons ect.

How do you expect to restrict a player to only use those versus structures? Just remove them from the game or replace by something like what I said before. There are and could be so many interesting abilities instead of demos but people like the spike of dopamine when they blow up a squad or blob.

Another thing is the fact that "all" soviet squads have flares... Why?! That just over saturates flares and leaves the feeling of repetitive and lazy unit design. Apart from those, the main soviet army is, imo, the best put together faction in coh2.

How do you expect to restrict a player to only use those versus structures? Just remove them from the game or replace by something like what I said before. There are and could be so many interesting abilities instead of demos but people like the spike of dopamine when they blow up a squad or blob.

Another thing is the fact that "all" soviet squads have flares... Why?! That just over saturates flares and leaves the feeling of repetitive and lazy unit design. Apart from those, the main soviet army is, imo, the best put together faction in coh2.

Sega 2013: these soviet bois seem boring they need more flair

Ok boss got it

Hey Give the soviets more flares



Show Spoiler

Vet 5 falls losing to ptrs penals, bar rifle and bren tommies, why are you surprised ? the game finally reached fully balanced form.

it's not even funny but hey lets nerf obers more disguising it as buff with them ebing little cheaper lol.
falss have been like this for 2 years.
i say let the balance preview pass and then the wintrate will tell the story of these allied fanboy cucks disguised as modders

it's not even funny but hey lets nerf obers more disguising it as buff with them ebing little cheaper lol.
falss have been like this for 2 years.
i say let the balance preview pass and then the wintrate will tell the story of these allied fanboy cucks disguised as modders

Wow Someone who uses the word cuck is an Axis fanboy -who knew

I feel like Infantry that has double brens and double bars should, in the end, win against elite infantry with no weapon upgrades. I figured the point should be he spent 120 munitions for one squad to the squad right?

I guess I can see the argument of "Why not just build obers who will win instead?" since they get a weapon upgrade. It's a valid point and that's the complication of having an elite unite without a weapon upgrade. It could be said the advantage is all the munitions you'd save and could use towards other things?

I feel like Infantry that has double brens and double bars should, in the end, win against elite infantry with no weapon upgrades. I figured the point should be he spent 120 munitions for one squad to the squad right?

I guess I can see the argument of "Why not just build obers who will win instead?" since they get a weapon upgrade. It's a valid point and that's the complication of having an elite unite without a weapon upgrade. It could be said the advantage is all the munitions you'd save and could use towards other things?

Problem is what the best using for allies ammo is a bars and brens and they have a choice, while axis should to spent ammo for something another, because they have not weapons racks. Yes, you can give a LMG for grens and StG44 for volks, but 2 bars will be better and in mid/late game all players will have enough ammo for the second weapon for squads, but only allies can use it.
The most of USF and UKF player prefer bars and brens, because it's better and safer than grenades - you can dodge grenades, but you cant dodge bar shoots.
IMO, axis should have better veterancy than allies to counter bars and brens in the late game.

P.S. This is not to mention what you can give a bar for every squad, includes pathfinders, airborne and rangers, while axis squads have only a defined choise.

P.S. This is not to mention what you can give a bar for every squad, includes pathfinders, airborne and rangers, while axis squads have only a defined choise.

Then on the flip side, Axis has some really good commander abilities/things to spend munitions on. In a hypothetical world the balance is allies have better infantry, while axis have better armor right? In some ways thats true, and in others it's not.

When you start saying "Well Axis (infantry) should be able to be upgraded and beat (allies)" you run into a problem of when exactly when would allies start winning? What is their high point? As allies I don't say "My ally (Tank) should be able to beat an axis (tank)" because I understand my infantry should be winning out at the end of the day.

When you start doing that, all armies and their lines begin to blur and differences just don't exist except some armies would just be generally better then one another simply due to numbers. My opinion is that it's far more interesting for Wermacht to use MGs, Mortars, and other things to win out in an infantry fight (Grens obviously are lacking at the moment). Lest the game literally turns into Grenadier blob vs Rifle blob. It doesn't feel right that your suggestion would be "Just wait until you get free veterency to beat out a squad that payed 120 munitions". The only veterency that wouldn't break the balance is reducing say, man power bleed on certain axis squads with late game vet or something, something more then just "do more damage, take less damage".

When you start saying "Well Axis (infantry) should be able to be upgraded and beat (allies)" you run into a problem of when exactly when would allies start winning? What is their high point? As allies I don't say "My ally (Tank) should be able to beat an axis (tank)" because I understand my infantry should be winning out at the end of the day.

that's where you are wrong kiddo say hi to the brits and all the buffed td
the notion of ally inf stronk and axis tank stronk has been lost long ago, now is axis is specilized and expesive(not over expensive just cost more for more performance) while allied forces are cost efficent and generalist

that's where you are wrong kiddo say hi to the brits and all the buffed td

Emphasis on SHOULD lol. I'm well aware that brits, often times, completely invalids most of Wermachts stuff. Firefly and Croc combo certainly doesn't feel like Wermacht "wins" the armor game.

Emphasis on SHOULD lol. I'm well aware that brits, often times, completely invalids most of Wermachts stuff. Firefly and Croc combo certainly doesn't feel like Wermacht "wins" the armor game.

it was a jk if you dint se the emotes

When you start saying "Well Axis (infantry) should be able to be upgraded and beat (allies)" you run into a problem of when exactly when would allies start winning? What is their high point? As allies I don't say "My ally (Tank) should be able to beat an axis (tank)" because I understand my infantry should be winning out at the end of the day.

Wehr and OKW have a most expensive medium tanks, but cromwell and sherman much better and have more abilities than P4. In the same time allies have the best medium tank-hunters (say hello to firefly with tulips and su85 with unlimited sight), brits have a comets, what have an armor like a tiger, and have no limit to build. And dont forget about pershing who need much less experience to gain veterancy, than a tiger.
Really unique things are the only KT, JT and Ferd, but they are really easy to destroy with a competent micro and tactics.

Honestly I really much more like a allies tanks, then axis.

It's good to see that this forum isn't as one sided as the official forums. The allied fanboys there outnumber the axis fanboys 3 to 1 so I'm not surprised about the game shifting in the allies favor. I have been saying for quite a while on the official forums that Ostheer has gotten the short end of the stick since early 2015 and continues to suffer. It has been getting fake buffs for years and now it (seems) that Ostheer has gotten some REAL buffs to the ostwind and panther (btw the ostwind used to be good then got nerfed to oblivion and now they are buffing it again) the allies counterpart just get buffed even harder. Jackson can withstand another shot (ie. 25% more health) Did panther get +25% RoF? Did p4 get +25% penetration? So Ostheer actually got a net nerf to late game. Jackson surviving another shot is FAR more important than 40 less damage.

Brits actually got a BETTER section now. The only nerf is it's in cover RA bonus removed. Not sure how significant the vet 3 lee enfield thing is. I apologize if this is actually a significant nerf to sections. Other than that, it gets better performance on the move and out of cover with a significant pop cap reduction. 5 man section is far better than rifle squad yet they are the same pop cap - 7. Yet pgrens are still 9 and lose to upgraded riflemen and inf section if there is no shotblocking they can use to their advantage. Look at the firepower of the other 9 pop cap squads: obers, falls, etc. They are noticeably better. A lmg gren vs double bren 5 man IS is so one sided, you wouldn't believe there is only a one pop cap difference. God forbid double vickersK sections

And I JUST learned that section no longer cost 35 to reinforce and now cost less than grens. LOL. Grens are inferior in virtually every way. One (bullshit) excuse that was given in the official forum in defense was that the bleed from Ost sniper was too painful vs Brits so they made it cheaper since Brits don't have anything to counter it. Katitof posted this horseshit. I'm not surprised. Brits have a 3 minute sniper, bren carrier, extra sight pyro upgrade, and a vickers garrison has the range to kill a sniper if the sniper doesn't have absolute full sight range.

The OKW luchs has been nerfed out of 1v1 OKW not only because of the luchs itself but because volks self heal comes too late and OKW cannot afford to hemorrhage munis for that long of a period. Plus the micro tax is worsened. All just to get a goddamn luchs. So the luchs doesn't cost just tech cost and the vehicle. It causes a lot more micro for the OKW player.

A lot of these changes are based on team games. Like OKW panther got a nerf only cuz teamgames. Luchs build time nerf only cuz teamgames due to them not being viable anymore in 1v1 due to volk healing. Even the Jackson buff is based on teamgames where its a lot easier to gun it down in a single volley with a group of tanks/AT while getting minimal return fire.

This DBP was looking so promising at first and then it went rapidly downhill after sections got their nerfs reverted and a sea of OKW nerfs in addition to the volk,kubel,luchs nerf. Those three units were the only overperforming units, but the balance team decided to nerf virtually every unit on the OKW roster. Every piece of armor was nerfed (except p4.) Infantry isn't faring much better. A common theme is the hollowing out of vet 4,5 bonuses for OKW while still retaining the vet 5 system to give OKW players the guise that their units still get a bit more out of veterancy. Now there is basically nothing special about OKW now and it might as well be called the KT faction.

I am disgusted about this DBP and I'm glad to see that many agree. As an Ost 1v1 specialist, I know that I'm going to boycott CoH2 if this patch goes live. I hope other axis players follow suit. It's clear that the balance team only caters to the more vocal but not more reasonable fanbase: allied players. I've been hovering around top 150 and I still get beaten regularly by players 100 ranks below me. Recently I was demoted to almost rank 300. I'm 150-250 for the 2 other factions I play. Ost is the only faction where I'd get beaten by lesser players frequently. And I have 10 times the # of games played as Ost.

However, I hope the tournament shows the balance team the serious mistakes they've made and it won't go down to this.......

Looking people arguing that spammable bar/bren mainline should be more powerful than doctrinal/non doc elite squads gave me cancer.

This is what a typical top 1v1 Brit player does. Can you believe blob tactics got him this far? How are the supposed section nerfs gonna reduce Brits from blobbing? Especially vickers k blobs?

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  Brit Blob of Hell

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Wehr and OKW have a most expensive medium tanks, but cromwell and sherman much better and have more abilities than P4.

Yet they both lose to the panzer 4 in a straight up fight. Lets not forget the pak 40 is easily the best anti-tank gun in the game. The armor balance is in such a weird place. Panzer 4 beats sherman and cromwell in a straight up fight, but I think the cromwell is in a better place in terms of value then the sherman or panzer 4, and the sherman has a niche if I can get one quickly then when the axis armor hits the field I would never build one instead spam jackson, sometimes scott. I said earlier the panzer 4 is not what the axis need. They don't need an mbt that can beat other non-doc mbts. They need one that can fight infantry well. Really I think the ost armor problem can be summed as such, its too focused on fighting other armor and not enough killing infantry. Ost needs to lower their at capabilities and increase their ai abilities.

Relic has still not fixed the problem that they claimed to have fixed which is the mg gunner always gets killed first. 80% of the time when I setup an mg42 in the open, the gunner is at the front. I certainly see the crew members occasionally at the front, I'm just not sure why this is so unreliable. If this is such a hassle to fix, perhaps it would be easier to give the mg42 a +5 vision at vet 2. This would allow the mg to have a crucial extra second to start firing to increase the chance of suppressing a blob on time before the gunner dies.

Also, I find extremely annoying the fact that if there are two targets in the firing arc and you manage to suppress one squad while the other is trying to get past the cone,and you try to click on the other squad but misclick due to the fact that the squad was moving, the mg packs up. I'm sure everyone has had this infuriating experience and I'd say a good way to change it is to allow a secondary method of target selection for mgs. Borrow the directional tulip shooting mechanic from the Firefly. This will no longer require you to click on a moving squad.

Wehr and OKW have a most expensive medium tanks, but cromwell and sherman much better and have more abilities than P4. In the same time allies have the best medium tank-hunters (say hello to firefly with tulips and su85 with unlimited sight), brits have a comets, what have an armor like a tiger, and have no limit to build. And dont forget about pershing who need much less experience to gain veterancy, than a tiger.
Really unique things are the only KT, JT and Ferd, but they are really easy to destroy with a competent micro and tactics.

Honestly I really much more like a allies tanks, then axis.

Majority of Axis players don't know how to use a Panzer4 or a Panther. The majority of players I face are diving hard with their tank because they see they have more armor or more health. Can't count how many Pz4 I destroyed because he dived hard to finish my sherman and forget that his tank is absolutely not accurate on the move.

You can't blame the game when you act so stupidly. I don't know how you can consider that Allied tank (at least USF tanks) are easier to use than Axis one's. They have less health and less armor, you need to micro 2 or 3 of them at the same time because you don't have any super big tank that does everything for you, as they are made of paper armor, more than ofter, you need to use smoke to save their ass. If you don't understand what does it means, it is easy, cut half of your Pz4 and Panther armor and add a button that will grant you full armor for 5/10 seconds for 60 munition so you can escape "more" safely.

Allied tank are not easier to use, you just face the same Axis players that have no clue how to manage their tanks. If they knew it, as good Axis players do, you would never said that.