Unfortunately, souls don't pay salaries
Speak for yourself dealing in souls has been very good.. Oh you meant keeping your soul yeah that can get dicey. |
Wehr and OKW have a most expensive medium tanks, but cromwell and sherman much better and have more abilities than P4.
Yet they both lose to the panzer 4 in a straight up fight. Lets not forget the pak 40 is easily the best anti-tank gun in the game. The armor balance is in such a weird place. Panzer 4 beats sherman and cromwell in a straight up fight, but I think the cromwell is in a better place in terms of value then the sherman or panzer 4, and the sherman has a niche if I can get one quickly then when the axis armor hits the field I would never build one instead spam jackson, sometimes scott. I said earlier the panzer 4 is not what the axis need. They don't need an mbt that can beat other non-doc mbts. They need one that can fight infantry well. Really I think the ost armor problem can be summed as such, its too focused on fighting other armor and not enough killing infantry. Ost needs to lower their at capabilities and increase their ai abilities. |
It would probably be easier to make USF more diversified if the starting unit was a rifle squad and each tier didn't automatically come with an infantry squad but had reduced cost.
Mortars already fulfill mobile light fire support. It's generally better to use a dedicated unit like the mortar than try to turn another unit into a watered down version of it.
I actually never understood why relic if they wanted the usf to be built around a few core units, why didn't they make the usf, use only a few core units that you upgrade to what you need from them. For example the m3 half track was used for like 5 or six different things including lugging around an at gun, having both a mortar and artillery piece. They could have made Usf tier 2 and 4 just the m3 and a sherman and give them exclusive upgrades you had to purchase to turn them into specialized units. |
There is a possibility of different ammo such as heat or sabot, but the Jackson already has that. Anyways the Sherman main gun is actually quite good. When fighting armor it has identical stats to the Cromwell gun and the Sherman 76/M4c pen is only 10 more.
That actually surprised me the first time I went to to coh stats to look it up, made me realize the real issue is that the sherman needs an actual armor upgrade that costs munitions. Would reinforce its role with the jackson to. Sherman for medium battle tanks Jacksons for heavies only. |
This might be why you're seeing axis being powerful late game. Allies can't (realistically) do a tank all-in and win, it just doesn't work. Like you said, axis will have a ton of AT squads, AT guns and AT-tanks that will simply wipe all the tanks very, very quickly.
What is needed is combined arms. As I was saying earlier, allied infantry is (mostly) much better vs. other infantry than their axis counterparts; this is key. PGrens with shreks will only have 2 STGs per squad, Sturms are pretty weak, and all axis weapon crews are small (3-4 man AT). Combined with poor AI power from their tanks, it means you have a massive advantage with your infantry.
Push with the double-upgraded squad of your choice (preferably with vet), and support it with some tanks. If you run into AT, your infantry will get rid of it very quickly. If you run into AI, your tanks can actually handle that very well. The only thing you need to fear is heavy AT (Panther, Tiger, KT, JT, Ele, etc.), but without infantry support, those are incredibly fragile and slow. You can even use your faster tanks to block the slower heavies (get behind them and hit 'stop') making them very easy to take out.
When I play axis (Mostly OKW, because OST is insanely hard right now), I rarely get many heavies for this reason. I usually get P4s (get rid of said double-upgraded infantry) supported by rakettens and shrecks. Probably the strongest AT I usually get is a single JP4.
I wouldn't say "kind of"; it's absolutely random. I've gone from top 40 OKW 4v4 to ~900 based purely on bad match ups, people quitting, people DC'ing, etc. Some days are good, some are bad. Don't take 3v3 or 4v4 very seriously.
I've been experimenting as usf going all in on infantry with a howitzer and 57mm and I've had mix success. Haven't played in 4v4 or 3v3 yet but haven't gotten smashed using this build yet. I do find it succesfuly against most axis tanks, you have stugs or a panther congrats I don't care because their crap against inf. |
@Mr. Smith & @Miragefla
Any thoughts on nerfing the LMG34 when it's picked up by a non Obersoldaten squad? That weapon is an absolute monster on other squads for some reason.
How much you want to be its weird ober specific infantry modifiers. Relic balancing ladies and gentleman making a rude goldberg machine of spreadsheets since 2006. |
So the thing is, this was originally supposed to help team games become balanced. Lots of units that do not even surface in 1v1s turn the tide in 3v3s+. Panther is one such unit. In a 1v1 it is murder to stall until t4, so the Panther naturally underperforms when you consider the tech costs involved. In a team game you have more or less the same amount of territory points to fight over, but 4 times more people going at it. Having a mobile kampfgruppe of Panthers is practically uncounterable for cost by the Allies.
Now, I am not saying that the Panther is in a good place or that it should be nerfed into the ground. Frankly I can think of no solution that would equally please 1v1 players and 4v4 players. So keep that in mind. Just offering perspective.
I feel that the Panther was not nerfed based on its 1v1 performance, but based on the fact that a flock of Panthers roaming the battlefield are a hallmark 4v4 strat.
When there is only 1 Panther (which is usually the case in 1v1s), if you snare it, you can at least exploit it. In a 4v4 you cannot dive to kill it with tank destroyers (since the other Panthers and God knows what else will pounce on you) which means damaged panthers can keep reversing with its monstrous frontal armour. Which translates into a lot of veteran Panthers roaming the battlefield at the 35 minute mark, and that is usually followed by a "gg" typed into the all chat by the allied team..
I really think the only option is to nerf performance and decrease cost on a lot of axis 4v4 dominating units. Essentially units like the panther can't be made cost efficient with their current performance because than they would be game ending units. Or you could buff at guns but then that would screw over panzer 4 more than the current td spam meta already does and still makes tier 4 cost inefficient. |
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Can we swap the panzer 4 and the sherman? I mean a literal 1 for 1 swap (fuel cost, armor, everything) for each army because they both feel like they don't belong in their respective armies. Americans don't need a good ai medium tank because of the effectiveness of rifleman, plus the sherman only has decent at capabilities and weak (compared to other medium tanks) armor make it overly vulnerable to axis at and while smoke helps its just another munition sink for Usf and more micro in a micro intensive armor selection for Usf. While the panzer 4 while being able to counter other non doc medium armor (not a real issue because ost have good at capabilities), can't deal with the infantry like a sherman can (which is never a real issue for usf excluding volks which are getting a Nerf).
This also gives the panther a niche which it can be adjusted for. Because the panzer 4 would be a good option for when you need good ai but only decent at which against usf will be almost always, medium to late game, the usf would then be able to build a sherman instead of the jackson in order to counter the panzer 4, in order to counter it 1v1 the ost would have the option to go panther or a heavy tank. Which the usf would then have to go jackson against. Essentially giving each vehicle a niche that doesn't overlap in the usf army. Furthermore stug spam would be weaker against usf because the sherman would have enhanced at capabilities. Stug would still be effective just not as effective flip side grenadiers would be less in danger because sherman would not be as powerful against infantry.
This step is optional but I think the best balanced and best for ost. You can then make the panther sort of the premium main battle tank, Nerf its armor (small to fair) and at capabilities (slight it needs to beat a easy 8 reliably but not cost efficiently, needs to lose against a Pershing head on) buff its main gun against ai (small if mg buff was effective more if not) then set its fuel cost to 150 just slightly more expensive than an easy 8. Essentially turning it into the best main battle tank but making it lose against a heavy tank. This would give it a purpose and a role in the ost army.
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