December Balance Preview

oh yes it does.

you really dont know what u talk about.

Soviets:
Healing: fuel free
T1: 10
T3: 85
T70: 70

165

Okw:
1st truck: 15
2nd truck: 15
Tier 1: 25
Healing: 15
Tier 2: 50
Luchs: 60

165

i said "free"

Whatever, no more super fast luch its good change

dude. all top players does only t2 with healing crates. this give atleast 4-5 mins of luch dominance.

Okw:
truck: 15
Tier 2: 50
Luchs: 60

125 fuel

Soviets:
Healing: fuel free
T1: 10
T3: 85
T70: 70

165

Okw:
1st truck: 15
2nd truck: 15
Tier 1: 25
Healing: 15
Tier 2: 50
Luchs: 60

165

Soviets:
Healing: fuel free
T1: 10
T3: 85
T70: 70

165

Okw:
1st truck: 15
2nd truck: 15
Tier 1: 25
Healing: 15
Tier 2: 50
Luchs: 60

165

You can just build t2 first and pay 15 fuel for the truck, 50 for t2 and 60 for the luchs. Thats 125 fuel.

I have seen the luchs come out before 6 minutes on a map like crossroads, this is quite early for a light tank, 1 minute after the m20 scout car can make an appearance from USF.

Patch Live Soon?

...

We're not talking about the same thing and maybe it is because we are not playing around the same level.

If for you 10mun per healing crate is a constant munition bleed, then your perseption of the game purposely explains your ranks with the various factions you play.

If you don't understand how a well managed kubel can bypass UKF lines on the first minutes of the game and decap territories behind UKF's HMGs, here again your opinion explains your rank.

I guess you'll see and understand the power of early light vehicle going behind your lines and decap your territories when you'll meet USF mechanized doctrine and maybe you'll think this time -Oh maybe I can do the same with my Kubel.

And again, I guess you'll understand the power of healing crate when you'll face again USF mechanized with the M3 able to reinforce and heal with crates on the field. (if it hasn't been removed yet). Maybe also that time you'll think that you can do the same with the Open truck and Sturm healing crates...

Plea to vote on the Balance Preview based on true opinion - to balance out faction specific lobbying



LINK: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1188134341

Again I don't care if you approve of the changes or disaprove, I do care about people brigading/voting based on faction favouritism. So just trying to balance that out by advertising the fact that relic are using these votes.

Luchs needs to come about 45 seconds later than it does in live.

If you can find us an alternative way to implement this, we'd be happy to hear it. So far this is the only solution that works. Do you prefer throwing a 22-fuel nerfhammer on Mech->Luchs builds instead?

Could you explain why it is said that Luchs comes out fast when the required resouces to buld a Luchs, Stuart or AEC are:

	MP	Fuel	Start Fuel	Build Time
Luchs	100+200+265: 565	15+50+60: 125	10	45 s
Stuart	200+270: 470	60+70: 130	15	50 s
AEC	180+100+280: 560	30+15+60: 105	20	45 s

I'm just trying to understand why the Luchs is said to have a insurmountable rush time when it has comparable or higher costs to its counterparts.

Sure you could say that OKW gets free Nades so you might want to add the cost of nade tech but conversely USF has free repairs so do we get to add in OKW Repair tech?

And are you assuming that the luchs should come out at the same time as the Stuart or AEC? Why should that be the case, Stuart and AEC are its natural counter and are still decent vs infantry, there should be a window where the luchs should be effective, otherwise what is the point of having an AI vehicle that arrives at the same time as its hard counter?

And also why is an AT gun not an acceptable counter? Sure its immobile but consider OKW vs Clown car. Apparently the option of building (blindly) a rak is good enough for OKW, why isn't building a 6 lpr or m51 not good enough for USF or UKF?

All in all making the luchs have an 85 second build time, which makes it longer than every other unit in the game is just laughable. If you are desperate for a nerf you could just increase its Manpower to like 300, at least that's an elegant solution.

Luchs 85 secs build time isn't so tragic as it sounds. I mean, M20 has a 60 second build time, and it also deadlocks your LT tier build order until it's ready.

Well of course it doesn't sound tragic when you compare it to incorrect game stats. I encourage you to double check the m20s build time.

Ahahhahaha

So...

1)you advocated some kind of "hurr durr muh low skill balance" to retain "out of jail free card" smoke much more skilled players than you (namely hans) consider retarded and stupid, now you are back on "elitist" mode because, what, a 500 rank ? Lul

Execpt I'm not advocating anything like that, you see the game and people comments though a biais prism. It is not about a question of nerf for USF but a question of tools available and possible abuse from removing it.
Smoke are mean to counter HMGs play for a faction that has no other starting units than RE and RM. The mortar has been added with the result we see today, barely use, barely useful because of a legitimate fear to have it too powerful.
But anyway smoke are still available on RE atm, I don't know if it is a error or purpose. I have to admit I'm a bit lost on with all the changes, at the end what have been decided about riflesmoke? Only on Officers or on Rear Echelon and Officers?

Luchs coming faster because OKW have better early game. Sturmpios, kubels, volks spam, the lack of HMG (more mobility) making better map control and faster capturing in first 3-4 mins, then have other factions. So thats mean what OKW have more resources in first 5 mins, which in turn means what luchs will come faster than stuart or other light tech.
But in DBP kubel and volks was nerfed, was buffed conscripts and were many other changes which affect on OKW early game. So now OKW harder to get an advantage on early game, which means what luchs will come later, than the current version of a game even without changing producing time.
It's just a theory, but if I'm right, OKW will be in a deep hole after patch.

P.S. By my posts you might think that I'm a fan of OKW, but I really don't like the design of that faction (same with Brits) and most of my games were played as a Wehrmacht and USF.

And are you assuming that the luchs should come out at the same time as the Stuart or AEC? Why should that be the case, Stuart and AEC are its natural counter and are still decent vs infantry, there should be a window where the luchs should be effective, otherwise what is the point of having an AI vehicle that arrives at the same time as its hard counter?

Why should OKW enjoy a time during which they can push everyone back to base because their is no effective counter to Luchs? This is not how COH2 works. If your Luchs isnt effective just because their is a counter on the map then you need to L2P and not blame "balance". OKW has no right to get a "counter-free" window of Luchs early game dominance.

Realistically it´s always a mix of Sturms, Volksgrens, Luchs and Raketenwerfer so you can counter everything. AEC, T70 and Stuart need to be very careful when hunting a Luchs because fausts are so easily available for OKW. Just use them to guard your Luchs while using the Luchs to push allied infantry.

I have seen the luchs come out before 6 minutes on a map like crossroads, this is quite early for a light tank, 1 minute after the m20 scout car can make an appearance from USF.

I think you've forgotten about my 4 minute m20s against you

The Luchs having such a long time is the same reason why the Greyhound is 5 CPs, to give enemies a time to assemble a counter before it arrives, not after it has base pinned you.

Why should OKW enjoy a time during which they can push everyone back to base because their is no effective counter to Luchs? This is not how COH2 works.

So 85 second build time for clown car and other light vehicles?

Hoshi brings up a valid point. Why is there a window where clown car can just dive at your infantry while they panic sprint back followed by a wall of fire?

And are you assuming that the luchs should come out at the same time as the Stuart or AEC? Why should that be the case, Stuart and AEC are its natural counter and are still decent vs infantry, there should be a window where the luchs should be effective, otherwise what is the point of having an AI vehicle that arrives at the same time as its hard counter?

This

And also why is an AT gun not an acceptable counter? Sure its immobile but consider OKW vs Clown car. Apparently the option of building (blindly) a rak is good enough for OKW, why isn't building a 6 lpr or m51 not good enough for USF or UKF?

This

All in all making the luchs have an 85 second build time, which makes it longer than every other unit in the game is just laughable. If you are desperate for a nerf you could just increase its Manpower to like 300, at least that's an elegant solution.

This

So 85 second build time for clown car and other light vehicles?

And this...

Why should OKW enjoy a time during which they can push everyone back to base because their is no effective counter to Luchs? This is not how COH2 works. If your Luchs isnt effective just because their is a counter on the map then you need to L2P and not blame "balance". OKW has no right to get a "counter-free" window of Luchs early game dominance.

For the same reason why volks don't get a t0 Faust, because there has to be a window of opportunity where clown cars must be effective, otherwise what's the point of a unit? Same is true for ostwinds and centaurs (in theory) are cheaper than p4s and Cromwells, there has to be some sort of reason why to build them when their counters (which are also generalist ai/at units) are soon arriving.

Back on topic, and that's even assuming that in live there is a huge window where the luchs is available and the Stuart and AEC arnt. I just don't see how a luchs which takes 115 fuel to get out (accounting for starting fuel) where as an AEC takes 75! I may be wearing some damn tinted glasses but how OKWs supposed "unbeatable" early game can get them 45 more fuel in under six minutes?

And that's assuming that AT guns and bazzoka blobs arnt a good deterant too.

As I said above such a drastic build time increase is unnecessary in my opinion and even if we disregard that due to my blatant fanboism, such a change is a poor solution to the problem, especially when allies are getting new early game buffs. A much better solution would be to increase its mp cost by 20 - 40, this does make it slower to come out but can be mitigated by good early gameplay or to give kubels a small 5 fuel cost.