December Balance Preview

Potent yes, but locked behind side tech and needed to be put on buildings or bridges!

So anything that cost 30 fuel to unlock and can only be placed on specific locations is allowed to be OP ?

I don't think so...

So anything that cost 30 fuel to unlock and can only be placed on specific locations is allowed to be OP ?

I don't think so...

No, it is merely allowed to have "P".

The new 1.3 patch notes are promising, but IMO it still does not fix the Panther. Problem is its still overlaps very much with StuGs and Jagdpanzers and fullfills the same role. The Panther is supposed to be an offensive/mobile AT option, and the thing that could give you tank superiority, but it lacks the abilities (moving accuracy being nerfed) to do that, and it lacks the edge over Allied prediums and heavies. The Rate of Fire change, I have mixed feelings on that, as you again already have rapid firing AT in the form of StuGs and Jpz. The pricing is OK but the abilities are not. Neither OST or OKW needs a slightly more expensive and slightly better StuG or Jpz but unique unit with a unque role.

Mediums are mostly absent, given that they are not very good and cost efficient, super accurate TDs wreck them easy everybody rushes for late heavies and TDs.


The other problem is Wehr lack of late game infantry presence. By late game, Grens are far to squishy and few in between against double BAR blobs wading through yellow cover, and OSTs weapon teams cannot help so much in the arty infested late game. OST is supposed to rely on armor to compensate but does not have the specialized tools its meant to have. OST Pios are absent from late game as they are constantly repairing tanks.

Having given it a thought, I think the following changes should be considered. COH1 nailed Panthers so nicely, the COH Panthers WERE perfect in that they were the backbone of Wehr's armored fist. There you had a slower firing Panther, that did greater damage than normal tanks and it was very hard to actually kill.

Give both Panthers the 0,65 moving accuracy they need to perform as mobile AT units.

Revert the RoF changes, instead give them 200 damage in some form, i.e. high alpha damage instead of gradual damage. This would make them effective and sufficiently dominant against prediums which have 800 HP but it would not change much their relation to mediums. Differentiate OST and OKW Panther a bit more - in the recent patch notes they are basically the same.

I am thinking on a PzGr. 40 muni-ability at Vet 2 instead of the cancelled armor veterancy that would boost the damage to 200 and the range to 60 (OST unlike other factions doesnt have any 60 range AT options apart from the PaK that is far unwieldly for late game tank spam). The OKW Panther could be more of brawler, gaining 20% faster reload at Vet 2.

Revive medium tanks. All of them are lackluster and lack long term usability. All of them are far too threatened by TDs with practically guaranteed hit and penetration. Currently most TDs hit them with 88% chance at max 60 range at Vet 0, which makes them ridiculsly forgettable option. Decrease the Size of T-34, Cromwell and Panzer IV to 20 from 22 to give them a fighting chance. Sherman can retain the moving accuracy advantage and a buff to armor.


The T-34 was fine at 80 fuel imho, anything more at it would only go back to SU 76s and Su 85s and Katys. Keep it cheap and effective vs infantry and against tanks at close range.

The Sherman suffers from not being very much needed, as its armor cannot protect it and Rifles do not need much of a tank support so they rely on TDs instead. The Sherman could however function as a meat shield and provide the USF with more rugged armor if it has more armor to the level that it can actually deflect some light TD and medium tank rounds.

Buff the Sherman's armor from 160 to 190, which should be fine and would be the only medium tank with a mediocum of chance to actually deflect TDs, but it would be easier to hit to compensate by TDs its higher moving accuracy.

Pz IV suffers from lacking longevity and long term usability. Any hint of Allied predium, TD or Comet spam makes it immidiately a negated or a poor investment, since it cannot fight them later at all due to far too low penetration that does not improve at all. And it doesn't have much, if any of an edge over Allied mediums when they arrive first making it a unwanted and often skipped investment. The miniscule buff to its pen does not rectifies that at all, the price decrease again does not make it favourable over StuGs that are still cheaper, and well, just better.

In order to revive the Pz IV, an increase of penetration to 130 should be in order - ie. halfway between that of Allied medium tanks and Allied predium tanks, which gives it a worthwile edge over early Allied mediums but otherwise maintains its relation to the Sherman with buffed armor (ie. previously 110pen/160armor now 130 pen vs 190 armor = both 68% chance to penetrate at mid range)

OST's StuG is meant to be your solution vs mediums. Decrease its medium range pen to 160 (-15%) so it can still perform strong that role (except for the buffed sherman, which now gains breathing space and becomes a more valid choice instead of just waiting for TDs), but its unwise to keep spamming it because allied teching/call ins can still invalidate it. Increase its survivability however, by buffing its front armor to 180 (28%) to give its sufficient protection (right now virtually everything pens it easily from the front) and decrease the target size to 19 from 20. To compensate for the survivability buffs, decrease its insanse DPS by an equal amount and decrease its rate of fire from 4.1 to 4.8 (16%), which coupled with a similar amount of pen decrease will keep the unit more or less on the same power level, but with less emphasis on DPS.

Wehr is now however without an affordable asset (Panther is way too expensive to perform that role) against higher armor targets, as the PaK 40 is lackluster against Comet and Churchill spam and the StuG is no longer an option against these. The PaK is far too similar to other ATGs already due to buffs to the latter. Buff the PaK 40 penetration of the PaK 40 to 225 from 200.

Tiger is mostly fine with the 1.3 patch, but IMO - along with all other heavy tanks, i.e. Pershing, IS-2 - that are overshadowed by prediums - it should be considered to increase its damage to 200.

Finally, all of this is to naught if Wehr cannot field its damaged tanks and cannot maintain infantry presence. The solution to both would be IMO to give OST an OKW style repair pioneer upgrade option at the Tier 3 building, but only after researching BF 3. This would free up Pioneers, give them roles again in the late game, give OST more (if weak, but useful) infantry presence, and allow it to actually use those tanks. The current late gameplay of OST is basically two pioneers being constantly at the back trying to repair the tanks, i.e. about 1/3 of OST popcap is constantly out of action.

I'd kind of prefer to see the current functional roles of the stug and Panther more or less swapped.

I'd rather the stug be the blocky meatshield and the panther be the go-to solution for killing allied tanks.

Right now the best role the panther plays is eating shells. It's armor and health pool most after vet 2 is all that allows it to try and deal damage.

I wonder how feasible it would be to throttle the stugs DPS but give it a larger health pool and armor bonus at least at vet 2.

IMO, the earlier a unit can be fielded the more it should benefit from vet. The later, the stronger it should be fresh at vet 0.

So anything that cost 30 fuel to unlock and can only be placed on specific locations is allowed to be OP ?

I don't think so...

Nice putting words in my mouth bro. If CoH side tech would be added, it would at least solve add a choice to the current no brainer click boom I win.

Nice putting words in my mouth bro. If CoH side tech would be added, it would at least solve add a choice to the current no brainer click boom I win.

So the current no brainer click boom I win would be changed to pay 30 fuel first, then click boom I win button.

No fuel price can offset the loss of multiple vetted squads unless the fuel price is high enough to make the ability useless alone

So the current no brainer click boom I win would be changed to pay 30 fuel first, then click boom I win button.

No fuel price can offset the loss of multiple vetted squads unless the fuel price is high enough to make the ability useless alone

Well, it wouldn't be a no brainer. The threat of demos wouldn't be 100% there as long as an engineer exists. If it couldn't be in open ground and we're only attached to objects, then there would be a large measure of gameplay within each players control.

A demo on some sandbags or in a garrison is much preferable to anywhere on the map a squad might stray.

Ain't no bait in the current system.

But to be fair, in vcoh wehr purchased vet so there wasn't that threat of losing vet. That made allied demos a little more feasible.
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First of all of my grammar i write in my keyboard fast i bet you are in the phone that the phone corrects your whole mistakes so dont talk and learn to read stats and then talk

What are you actually trying to say?

In my opinion usf still too weak (specially vs okw) and axis late game still dominates (armor), i think usf needs maybe a slightly infantry nerf (riflemen) and give it more diversity, i think it needs normal mines (also reduce the current time of laying them down), nerf the damage of the mortar and give it more range, give it flamethrower for rear echelons, and i think the atg and mg should be together, maybe move the 50 cal to captain tier with atg and move stuart to lt tier, also i think pack howitzer needs a price reduction with a damage nerf and m20 needs a man power cost reduction

In my opinion usf still too weak (specially vs okw) and axis late game still dominates (armor), i think usf needs maybe a slightly infantry nerf (riflemen) and give it more diversity, i think it needs normal mines (also reduce the current time of laying them down), nerf the damage of the mortar and give it more range, give it flamethrower for rear echelons, and i think the atg and mg should be together, maybe move the 50 cal to captain tier with atg and move stuart to lt tier, also i think pack howitzer needs a price reduction with a damage nerf and m20 needs a man power cost reduction

Agreed the ATG and .50 HMG should be in the same tier. The Lt tier is rather underused as it does not offer much - it leaves you rather vulnerable for vehicles for example - although I have been seeing some .50s now that people realized they are GOOD. IMHO the ATG and the M17 dakka-dakka truck should be swapped, making the LT more of a defensive Tier and the Captain an offensive/agressive tier with light vehicles that however can be easily turned against you, as your only AT option is light vehicels and bazookas.

although I have been seeing some .50s now that people realized they are GOOD.

So good I have see yesterday a full life volksquad entering in its range from far and crawling till lavanade range while suffering only 1 or 2 model lost but no pin.

Yup, they are to actually kill stuff, infantry and light vehicles like, not for pinning stuff. Volks also have an anti-suprression bulletin.

So good I have see yesterday a full life volksquad entering in its range from far and crawling till lavanade range while suffering only 1 or 2 model lost but no pin.

Prove it please.

So the current no brainer click boom I win would be changed to pay 30 fuel first, then click boom I win button.

No fuel price can offset the loss of multiple vetted squads unless the fuel price is high enough to make the ability useless alone

No, but it would at least mean some investment and then it would mean anything but a 'no brainer'. Demos early on? Good no rushed light vehicles. No demos early on? Good, rushed vehicle.

No, but it would at least mean some investment and then it would mean anything but a 'no brainer'. Demos early on? Good no rushed light vehicles. No demos early on? Good, rushed vehicle.

I still think that OP things should be nerfed and not having a price increase to match their OP performance. For example look at 2013 Tiger Ace. Was it balance because it halved all your income for whole game ? It was funny to play with/against it ?

I still think that OP things should be nerfed and not having a price increase to match their OP performance. For example look at 2013 Tiger Ace. Was it balance because it halved all your income for whole game ? It was funny to play with/against it ?

Look I am no fan of it either. However, in the current 1.3 nerfed form, I am fine with demos. Still cheese, but less cheese. If the demo nerfs are reverted, at least they should add teching cost and for example include a side muni upgrade to engineers that allows them to then lay down demos and excludes sweeper and flamer.

If the demo nerfs are reverted, at least they should add teching cost and for example include a side muni upgrade to engineers that allows them to then lay down demos and excludes sweeper and flamer.

If they really wanted to go that route, do you think there should be a specific "can lay demos" icon like there is a minesweeper/flamer icon? Since if so, that just makes actually using demos incredibly difficult because it'd be far easier to tell where to sweep for them.

Frankly, after having played with them for a bit, I like the way 1.3 demos are implemented because they're a good attention checker—if you just click and blindly send a unit to cap a point, you're liable to lose that unit. If you're paying attention, you can at the very least smash the retreat button and lose nothing but time. The timer also synergizes well with the entry/exit delays in garrisoning to punish building use without being abusive against wandering infantry. It's pretty much the best way to handle a "click boom" squad wipe tool.

If they really wanted to go that route, do you think there should be a specific "can lay demos" icon like there is a minesweeper/flamer icon? Since if so, that just makes actually using demos incredibly difficult because it'd be far easier to tell where to sweep for them.

Frankly, after having played with them for a bit, I like the way 1.3 demos are implemented because they're a good attention checker—if you just click and blindly send a unit to cap a point, you're liable to lose that unit. If you're paying attention, you can at the very least smash the retreat button and lose nothing but time. The timer also synergizes well with the entry/exit delays in garrisoning to punish building use without being abusive against wandering infantry. It's pretty much the best way to handle a "click boom" squad wipe tool.

I agree man. I like the 1.3 demo versions too.

What are you actually trying to say?

That at least i write fast and very good for my speed like now and you i bet write SO slow in your phone with auto correcter and crying how i make grammar mistakes i bet you didnt even went to school to learn all this things

In my opinion usf still too weak (specially vs okw) and axis late game still dominates (armor), i think usf needs maybe a slightly infantry nerf (riflemen) and give it more diversity, i think it needs normal mines (also reduce the current time of laying them down), nerf the damage of the mortar and give it more range, give it flamethrower for rear echelons, and i think the atg and mg should be together, maybe move the 50 cal to captain tier with atg and move stuart to lt tier, also i think pack howitzer needs a price reduction with a damage nerf and m20 needs a man power cost reduction

No USF is fine i am a USF fan boi i have to say i play them all the time and no please no more riflemen nerf riflemen took 3 nerfs this YEAR in a ROW they are fine enjou m7 mines rifle company and 640 health jackson