Mechanized Grenadier Group

Today I want to talk about the Mechanized Grenadier Group and how it is an underrated ability. Yes, it can be quite good. The main thing is the 250 half track in which every one believes is it a undesired unit. First off lets look at it stats and compare them to the M3 scout car and the 222.

250
HP: 240
Armor: 11

222
HP: 320
Armor: 9

M3 Scout (Soviet)/M3 halftrack (USF) {same values}
HP: 200
Armor: 5.4



Now if we take the this formula to find effective health. Since we will be talking about small arms, penetration will be one.
Health/(Penetration/Armor)

Effective Health
250: 2640
222: 2880
M3: 1080

This ultimately means the 250 halftrack is a 2640 health Grenadier, that can also kite. This means you can stay at the max range where Grenadiers still do well. Since this ability only comes in one doctrine, German Mechanized Doctrine, it also has access to spotting scopes to help spot threats such as infantry held AT and AT guns. If your opponent is blobbing, hit them hard. They will have trouble in fielding AT guns. Force them to pay for reinforcing.

Now, if we load in a flamer pioneer, it puts the M3 Clown Car to shame for clearing garrisons. Alternatively loading up a minesweeper still works for quick/deep sweeping. When vs MGs, they do have a greater penetration so be careful. Additionally, Allied mines are weaker so they will not one shot the 250 allowing the Pios able to repair. (Quicker than a 222 since it has less health.)

Dshk: 1.5/3/4.5
Maxium 1.2/1.4/1.6
M2HB 5/6/7 (be careful)
Vickers 1.3/1.6/1.9

While still having less effective health than a 222 this group posses more anti infantry damage. I found this ability quite effective when your opponent is blobing. If they get PTRS, Bazookas, or Piat blob in retaliation then unload your Grens the 250 can still be a spotter for the Left 18 Howitzer as well in general. Additionally, forcing your opponent to get AT held weapons means your Grenadiers will have a better time fighting against poorly equipped units.

The Mechanized Assault Panzergrenadier variant I would say is weaker. The must be in closer to fight making it harder to fight snares as well enemy rifle rate of fire would increase. Swap them for Flamer Pios and hit the flanks I say.

Cons:
-3 Command points
-Weak to AT
-Cost 500/30 so getting your Pak 40 out will be harder. However, with LMGs already come on your squad then it spares up your valuable early Munitions for Tellermines. Additionally, Grenadiers themselves do not take much damage anyways to you can also stall your Med Bunker for making use of that munitions for more mines.


Also for a quick QoL fix of all garrison-able vehicles. Do you think we could make the 250/251/M3 and etc could enable to capture points when garrisoned? This can allow for better queue moving for a mass capture.

I generally agree that the unit is underutilised for its performance, but I would not go as far as comparing it to "2640 hp grenadier". That is for a number of reasons:
1. Units shooting out of vehicles have only half the chance to hit.
2. All small arms are going to hit the vehicle with probability of 1, while it is not as easy to hit grenadier, especially in cover.
3. There is also rear armour of 5.5 which is much less and you are going to often show it, especially with pios inside.
4. You cant use all the great abilities grens have, this includes not only nades but also for example retreat.
5. Last but not least, grens are resistant to any type of AT, while the ht is going to get heavy damage from it.

Generally, IMO, it is much easier to lose the HT than to lose a squad of grens.

If you want to really make a comparison wouldn't be more reasonable to do it with similar fuel cost HALFTRACKS ?

M5 (soviets)
Armor: 28.5
Rear armor: 20
Fuel cost: 30
Can upgrade to quad
Can carry two squads

250 (ostheer)
Armor: 11
Rear armor: 5.5
Fuel cost: 30
Can carry 1 squad

It should get an armor buff to at least be immune to small arms fire for that fuel cost

If you want to really make a comparison wouldn't be more reasonable to do it with similar fuel cost HALFTRACKS ?

M5 (soviets)
Armor: 28.5
Rear armor: 20
Fuel cost: 30
Can upgrade to quad
Can carry two squads

250 (ostheer)
Armor: 11
Rear armor: 5.5
Fuel cost: 30
Can carry 1 squad

It should get an armor buff to at least be immune to small arms fire for that fuel cost

It's not the cost but the time it comes on the field that is important here.

4. You cant use all the great abilities grens have , this includes not only nades but also for example retreat .

Tell me next time you save your overextended vehicle just by clicking a button like you can do with infantry This is important thing for the comparison of bare gren vs mechanised gren. Especially as there is no commander with 250 and panzer tactitian.

I generally agree that the unit is underutilised for its performance, but I would not go as far as comparing it to "2640 hp grenadier". That is for a number of reasons:
1. Units shooting out of vehicles have only half the chance to hit.
2. All small arms are going to hit the vehicle with probability of 1, while it is not as easy to hit grenadier, especially in cover.
3. There is also rear armour of 5.5 which is much less and you are going to often show it, especially with pios inside.
4. You cant use all the great abilities grens have, this includes not only nades but also for example retreat.
5. Last but not least, grens are resistant to any type of AT, while the ht is going to get heavy damage from it.

Generally, IMO, it is much easier to lose the HT than to lose a squad of grens.

1. The half accuracy when garrison in a vehicle is not true. If the vehicle is stationary the units inside are still have full accearcy, they still recive moving penalties if the vehicle is moving, yet the LMG can still fire but with its own moving penalties. With the doctrine it in, not moving is fine with its spotting scopes.

2. Since the halftrack are targetable, units are more like going to target it rather than Gren squad itself.

3. It call reverse moving and not showing your rear, anyways 5.5 rear armor is quite high, higher than the frontal armor than the Kubel/WC 51/M3 Scout.

4. Why waste munitions on standard squad if it really can not touch your grens, or why waste munitions on a HMG that can now easily flank? For retreating, you can reverse move out or know your limits. You can always hop your grens out.

5. Spoting scopes will allow you not to drive into at guns, and you can always hop your grens out.

Yeah, a 2640 health Grenadier that costs twice the normal Grenadier's manpower and 30 fuel on top of that.

I'd rather they just give Grenadiers a Sonic upgrade or whatever to make them faster or a Wolfenstein Soldier upgrade to make more beefier.

Look as a user that goes Mechanized Assault 90% of time I go Wehrmacht, all in all it's just useless, I mean yeah sure it buys you time until you get the StuG and Tiger out but other than that it's useless.

And I still don't see the problem in giving it extra utility for it's price like an MG or the ability to reinforce.

Double Post

I'm also pretty sure that the Mechanized Grenadiers are still "bugged" in that they never received the Rifle Grenade Range Vet 2 Veterancy nerf - so if you can keep them alive you can nuke squads from half the map away like the good old days.

Personally I'd be more inclined to swap out the Grenadiers for a Flamer Pio for garrison clearing and chasing squads down on retreat but I tend to agree it's not a terrible investment if you're a little flush with manpower - the issue is more when you're in a competitive game and can't easily float an extra 260 manpower just for an extra bit of mobility that may or may not be useless if the Allies go for light vehicles. That being said I'm surprised they aren't used against the Brits more often since you don't have worry about snares and AECs aren't super meta like they used to be

Your assumption of a durably Grenadier hold little water.

A number of weapon will damage both vehicle and occupants and number of snares will actually target passengers and wipe them out even if they disembark.

CP 3 is also a bit late for one to be producing Grenadiers.