Squad-Ai - The Poll

This is a continuation of this post, you should read a bit of this first.

This is just to see the responses in numbers. If you want to comment on this page, go ahead, but I wont be replying to questions or any other discussion, Im only lurking around on the other one. I'll take the results after 1 month for granted, and maybe lelic might aswell?

It might be scummy voting in your own poll, but I voted for Improvements and The whole sha'bang.

As always, keep your posts civil and try to explain your reasoning!

Shitty mechanic

i wasn't around in the early days can someone explain exactly what was so shit about squad ai

I have never heard an exact definition of Squad AI and exactly what it supposed to do.

Furthermore i don't exactly see the problem it tries to solve.

I have never heard an exact definition of Squad AI and exactly what it supposed to do.

Furthermore i don't exactly see the problem it tries to solve.

In short: Squad AI gives the individual entities of a squad a level of AI behaviors.

There are a number of different categories and circumstances that can trigger this AI, such as being in combat.

The way the AI works is that an entity will, for instance, search in a radius around it for cover and run for it once combat is initiated.

It can also impact how squads maneuver around objects and path, such as leap frogging rather than moving in a specific formation.

Arguably squad AI gives squads the ability to fight efficiently (and sometimes not so much) without a level of micro from the player. A player can leave a squad in combat and trust that they'll utilize cover, rather than having to manually direct them to choose a specific piece of cover. (Which typically results in a clumped up squad.) The AI often gets squads to naturally spread out.

I personally think it's a major component of what makes the CoH franchise so unique. I think at face value squad AI is more 'different' than 'better', but I do believe it gives all squad based combat much more flexibility and dynamicism, which I personally find 'better'.

In short: Squad AI gives the individual entities of a squad a level of AI behaviors.

There are a number of different categories and circumstances that can trigger this AI, such as being in combat.

The way the AI works is that an entity will, for instance, search in a radius around it for cover and run for it once combat is initiated.

It can also impact how squads maneuver around objects and path, such as leap frogging rather than moving in a specific formation.

Arguably squad AI gives squads the ability to fight efficiently (and sometimes not so much) without a level of micro from the player. A player can leave a squad in combat and trust that they'll utilize cover, rather than having to manually direct them to choose a specific piece of cover. (Which typically results in a clumped up squad.) The AI often gets squads to naturally spread out.

I personally think it's a major component of what makes the CoH franchise so unique. I think at face value squad AI is more 'different' than 'better', but I do believe it gives all squad based combat much more flexibility and dynamicism, which I personally find 'better'.

I think if it became more refined as Lugie is doing, then it would be a great mechanic. Hell, it was a pretty good mechanic in vCoh for the most part, just in certain situations the squads wouldn't do exactly what you tell them to (like jump around or lie down instead of firing at the enemy tank about to escape/smg troops rapidly closing). All in all though, I think it would be great if refined and all.

I said no in the previous thread on the topic, but after seeing it in the mod briefly, I can see it working well. As long as squads don't do the CoH1 thing where they bolt around cover and get themselves killed/suppressed and we don't get ye ol' Guard Rain Dance, I think its a winning formula.

No thanks, when I want to see dancing queen I want ABBA not USF Captain ballet solo with nice Axis armor audience nearby

Squad AI was one of the more realistic CoH mechanics that pulled in a lot of people, CoH 2's units are like robots in comparison, they only have one stance and that's about it, units in CoH had more character, they yelled when they were winning, dying, losing, getting pinned, facing tanks, getting hit by grenades, crouching, moving up, taking cover, rolling and so forth, it felt like a real tactical engagement.

The only thing I didn't like was my units running out of cover, as well as my snipers moving out of my set position, that's why I wanted to add a stand ground toggle ability for them in my mod or another mod possibly.

I respect the need for StarCraft 2 like unit movement like in Dawn of War 3 for competitive play but I just don't think CoH has what it takes to be competitive, it has far too much RNG in it but that's what makes it so unique and semi-realistic and not entirely just arcady.

I think that we have enough competitive and arcady franchises and that we need more semi-realistic or fully simulator like realistic games.

Leave CoH and DoW alone with what made them highly praised and unique and loved for, and make a new franchise solely for the competitive scene if you ask me, at least that's what I'd do if I was Relic.

Squad AI and tank-critical mechanics are the two main reasons why CoH1 ages so well. Unfortunately, CoH2 won't have the same fate, given how front-loaded infantry action in CoH2 is (mainly due to T0 infantry), and how repetitive infantry engagements are, especially during that phase.

Aesthetically, squad AI makes infantry fights feel more unique and immersive, as opposed to the copy-paste behaviour of right-click behind cover -> wait until a squad retreats that we see nowadays. Unlike CoH1 stationary infantry models never nudge (e.g., CoH1-like barrel rolls), and the fact that the squadmembers never ever move makes engagements feel even more lacklustre.

Gameplay-wise, squad AI is what would allow squads to spread out a bit, so that you don't have entire squads one-hit-wiped by mortars, and rocket artillery and stuff.

Squad-AI isn't all roses though. Some squad-AI files (e.g., CoH1 riflemen squad-ai) worked really well. Other squad-ai files (e.g., rangers) were super-craptastic and made guard balerinas look good.

The reason squad-AI got such a bad rap was because guards (the only squad with AI) were given the worst possible AI plan for their role. This is at the same time that Soviets had to fight the OKW vet5 of the olden days.

The fact that guards AI could be aborted at any-moment using "Stop" also made people misidentify squad-AI as the problem. If you didn't press stop, your squad would shift around a bit, wasting DPS. Instead if you knew how it worked and pressed stop, your squad would open fire instantly. Thus, squad-AI became "the thing that forces you to press Stop every single time before an engagement".

Instead, the problem all along was that people could abort squad-AI (and not the fact that squad AI was present). Thus, if Relic ever decides to reintroduce squad-AI plans they need to add both attack and idle plans at the same time.