P-47 Rocket Strike vs Stuka Close Air Support [VIDEO Proof]

So you think Ostheers can't have 2 panther and a pak and still have a lot of infantry?
Same as OKW with JGTiger and one reketen and still have infantry.

I have played many 2vs2 games and as far as remember I have never managed to survive as Ostheer to late game (build T4 and 2 Panthers) relying in single pak as you describe in you scenario. It is simply not realistic.

P47 is an Expensive late game ability and should be efficient. And you still have the chance to escape and to avoid.
Like Air Supremacy Operation.

JT comes later and is a far more expensive ability, so in that sense, calling a P47 should not be able to hard counter a JT.

That is exactly my point, P47 should not become "air supremacy operation" a badly designed ability with no counter, than to retreat and pray that enemy planes will stop before bombing you base.

Keep also in mind that USF and UKF are completely differently designed faction and UKF are designed to have powerful off map abilities. Asking for USF to equally powerful off map does not mean that it would actually help balance.

I have played many 2vs2 games and as far as remember I have never managed to survive as Ostheer to late game (build T4 and 2 Panthers) relying in single pak as you describe in you scenario. It is simply not realistic.


JT comes later and is a far more expensive ability, so in that sense, calling a P47 should not be able to counter a JT.

That is exactly my point, P47 should not become "air supremacy operation" a badly designed ability with no counter, than to retreat and pray that enemy planes will stop before bombing you base.

Keep also in mind that USF and UKF are completely differently designed faction and UKF are designed to have powerful off map abilities. Asking for USF to equally powerful off map does not mean that it would actually help balance.

Sure, less powerful is fine. Bugged and way to expensive for performance is not.

And 80 range autoattack is the same of isg autoattack, but on top of that pack has good aoe.
At any range at which mortar can hit it pack has still less scatter and better aoe.
The three shells limit is a pain in the a** but giving vet 0 4 shells is quite op.

Isg itself need a nerf/buff overhaul that put it closer to pack howie imho.

Both sherman he and scott projectiles have aoe, so i don't get how they are good against single squads.
A bunched blob is going to suffer terribly from both and 60 range is enough for trolling blobs.

Nah that is cheese bullshit, priest is good, period, no freaking decrew.
Priest is far more annoying against okw than calliope,with their constant pounding.
Calliope is less situational and more of a wiping tool

How jackson can be a dead weight ? i thought it was more of a su85, jadgpanzer 4, stug issue, how can a turretted tank have issues regarding maps ?

ISG AA (live) is 100 range, same as 120mm mortar. 105 at vet 1 and 140ish (barrage) with vet 3.
Equal scatter with OH mortar on AA. Mortar barrage has less scatter. ISG has way less scatter on both modes. If Pack Howie gets vet2, it doubles the scatter so it's way more RNG.

ISG needs a overhaul in order to be able to deal with garrisons and not be a 105 afk weapon.

A demo is a good blob deterrent. Rocket artillery as well. A sherman with HE is a deterrent to blobs in the same way a KT is one. I guess you are thinking about blobs which are all one on top of each other. I'm talking more about "intelligent" blobbing such as Cpt price.

Priest is good, it's just overshadowed by cheaper or better alternatives.
Wiping tool > annoying tool

Low HP + cramped maps, specially with shotblockers or other dead tank chasis. Meta wise, if a map is good for JT/Ele, you are better investing in mass shermans. Thxfully you are no longer 2 shotted by mark vehicle cheese (unless you combo it with Elite armor for the lulz or you manage to late-game get a vetted JPIV).

Anyway, going back to P47. It's not that it's bugged, it's simple bad for cost or performance compared to other simil abilities.

ISG AA (live) is 100 range, same as 120mm mortar. 105 at vet 1 and 140ish (barrage) with vet 3.
Equal scatter with OH mortar on AA. Mortar barrage has less scatter. ISG has way less scatter on both modes. If Pack Howie gets vet2, it doubles the scatter so it's way more RNG.

ISG needs a overhaul in order to be able to deal with garrisons and not be a 105 afk weapon.

A demo is a good blob deterrent. Rocket artillery as well. A sherman with HE is a deterrent to blobs in the same way a KT is one. I guess you are thinking about blobs which are all one on top of each other. I'm talking more about "intelligent" blobbing such as Cpt price.

Priest is good, it's just overshadowed by cheaper or better alternatives.
Wiping tool > annoying tool

Low HP + cramped maps, specially with shotblockers or other dead tank chasis. Meta wise, if a map is good for JT/Ele, you are better investing in mass shermans. Thxfully you are no longer 2 shotted by mark vehicle cheese (unless you combo it with Elite armor for the lulz or you manage to late-game get a vetted JPIV).

Anyway, going back to P47. It's not that it's bugged, it's simple bad for cost or performance compared to other simil abilities.

Pack howie:
Range 160
Auto 80

Isg:
Range 100
Auti 80

There is nothing that outrange pack.
The isg has les scatter but minimal aoe,it's like shooting rocks, you either hit them in the head or they are fine.

"ISG needs a overhaul in order to be able to deal with garrisons and not be a 105 afk weapon."

This is what i advocated for a long time.

Priest can be more of an annoying tool, can efficiently deny a specific area, it's better than calliope against okw bases and big howitzers are porn for me

Nono, it's freaking bugged against anything smaller than panther, it wipe anything on the tank sides but doesn't hit the tank.

Pack howie has less autofire range than isg. I don't have the numbers or the game in front of me, but I know that for a fact from experience. 3 shells means the barrage is only good against buildings and okw trucks and mayyyybe weapon teams but it's really rng dependent.

I also don't understand why sherman isn't good against large blobs with he. Scott is good but it's no rocket arty, same goes for the priest, so they won't really be very good blob counters, but do good as support.

Jackson is dead weight on some maps due to the fact that it gets 3 hit by regular hard at sources (raks, paks, and tank cannons). In perspective, the luchs also gets 3 hit by hard at sources. This means that if your jackson bounces (which can definitely happen against panthers and heavier) and it's not at absolutely max range with perfect positioning and support, then it's really vulnerable to being dived and will probably die, leaving you with nothing to kill the diving tank with unless you have more Jacksons or they really really suck and just leave their tank there for your riflemen to chase down and use their two hour at nade and your zooks chase them down after that. And they get invalidated (like they might as well just die and free up popcap and upkeep) by elefants or jts just like all other mediums, but more so them because they die to other supporting at even easier. Non turreted tanks is a totally different issue but can apply to the same maps (jackson is garbage on urban maps or any sort of slightly constricted space since it's only advantages are speed and range.

They both have same autofire range

"Good only against buildings, okw bases and team weapons.." isg at buildings was already like this

"Rng dependant"
Welcome in coh 2

I can't see why you are using a kiting vehicle like a panther sniper.
Well except urban maps, true that...pershing and ez 8 are necessary there.

ISG AA (live) is 100 range, same as 120mm mortar. 105 at vet 1 and 140ish (barrage) with vet 3.
Equal scatter with OH mortar on AA. Mortar barrage has less scatter. ISG has way less scatter on both modes. If Pack Howie gets vet2, it doubles the scatter so it's way more RNG.

Actually at vet 2 only the barrage is affected not the normal shots, since its replaced by "Heat Barrage"

The Heat barrage gets 2X more damage and 300 penetration.

It also gets double "scatter max distance" but that does not translates in actual more scatter chance, since it is basically upper limit the weapon can scatter.

The value that matter are angle_scatter and Distance_scatter_ratio.

Pack howie:
Range 160
Auto 80

Isg:
Range 100
Auti 80

There is nothing that outrange pack.

Leig has an auto attack and barrage range of 100. It get a 5% range at vet 1 for both modes.

All this have very little to with P47 thou.

JT comes later and is a far more expensive ability, so in that sense, calling a P47 should not be able to hard counter a JT.

Lol, what should the P47 counter in that case.

Lol, what should the P47 counter in that case.

Abilities should assist you win fights not win you the game.

I am sure you can understand that using "stuka bombing" in base or "artillery cover" countering everything did not make the game better or more balanced, and where changed.

Expecting P47 to perform like "Air supremacy operation" (as mentioned by Bizorck)(an ability almost broken) does not make sense.

Abilities should assist you win fights not win you the game.

I am sure you can understand that using "stuka bombing" in base or "artillery cover" countering everything did not make the game better or more balanced, and where changed.

Expecting P47 to perform like "Air supremacy operation" (as mentioned by Bizorck)(an ability almost broken) does not make sense.

Is Stuka close Air Support balance? If yes, make a clone of it with the same price.

Is Stuka close Air Support balance? If yes, make a clone of it with the same price.

Ok then lets make stuka dive bombing a clone of "Allied air supremacy" and "light artillery barrage" a clone of "artillery cover".

As I have explained in previous posts, cloning things does not make things balanced unless you clone the entire faction and commander.


As I have explained in previous posts, most of issue of "stuka close air support" come from the commander design that include g43/tiger/stuka.


As I have explained in previous posts, all loitering planes need an overhaul since planes are hard to counter in 1v1 and very in 4vs4.

Is Stuka close Air Support balance? If yes, make a clone of it with the same price.

Stop the braindead posting, stuka cas can be dhot down and doesn't target out of los buildings.

Remember when dive bomb could be fired in base ?
All off map cheese have been somewhat adjusted but such ukf bullshit.

Air supremacy, royal arty and hawker thypoon are LIGHTYEARS ahead in terms of op bullshittery.

Ok then lets make stuka dive bombing a clone of "Allied air supremacy" and "light artillery barrage" a clone of "artillery cover".

As I have explained in previous posts, cloning things does not make things balanced unless you clone the entire faction and commander.


As I have explained in previous posts, most of issue of "stuka close air support" come from the commander design that include g43/tiger/stuka.


As I have explained in previous posts, all loitering planes need an overhaul since planes are hard to counter in 1v1 and very in 4vs4.

There is no issue with Stuka close air support the ability is balance from my point of view. But it is interesting that you don't want the P47 being equally powerful and do the job it was design for.

There is no issue with Stuka close air support the ability is balance from my point of view.

I find it too cost effective.

I also find the lighting commander too strong in 1vs1. G43 allows delayed t2, Tiger is one of the few viable option for Ostheer and Stuka allows the Tiger to fight back even when swarmed.

On the other hand given the current state of Ostheer, imo the issue is less important (than the performance of loitering planes across the modes).

But it is interesting that you don't want the P47 being equally powerful and do the job it was design for.

Read my post from start, you will get a bigger picture. The P47 "Job it is designed to do" is not a one button hard counter to axis super heavy tanks that would nullify them.

As I have explained I have played the game when P47 was devastating and the game was ugly.

And once again loitering planes do not need simple changes but an overhaul. Their performance is very inconstant across modes.

And finally once more making abilities identical does necessarily promotes balance since each faction is designed to different strength and weakness (and off-maps is one of this design characteristics.) For instance giving soviet the power UKF off map abilities would make them OP.

Ostheer are more munition hungry than USF. Grenadier without weapon upgrades is one of the worse mainline infantry while PZIV and Panther without pintals are bad vs infantry...

Dont agree, grens, liek tommies are good wihtout upgreides. Any line infatry will be lose to squad that have upgreid.

I find it too cost effective.

I also find the lighting commander too strong in 1vs1. G43 allows delayed t2, Tiger is one of the few viable option for Ostheer and Stuka allows the Tiger to fight back even when swarmed.

On the other hand given the current state of Ostheer, imo the issue is less important (than the performance of loitering planes across the modes).



Read my post from start, you will get a bigger picture. The P47 "Job it is designed to do" is not a one button hard counter to axis super heavy tanks that would nullify them.

As I have explained I have played the game when P47 was devastating and the game was ugly.

And once again loitering planes do not need simple changes but an overhaul. Their performance is very inconstant across modes.

And finally once more making abilities identical does necessarily promotes balance since each faction is designed to different strength and weakness (and off-maps is one of this design characteristics.) For instance giving soviet the power UKF off map abilities would make them OP.

So what is it supposed to counter? Pz4?

So what is it supposed to counter? Pz4?

One mine.

So what is it supposed to counter? Pz4?

What Vipper is trying to say is that usf p47 rocket should eventually force vehcicles to move and add some damage, not either miss it or outright instagib any tank with no chance of counterplay.

"Oh look a king tiger, i have muni, click, dead"

It should do some damage and eventually allow you to finish the enemy or fight it in a favorable engagement.

What Vipper is trying to say is that usf p47 rocket should eventually force vehcicles to move and add some damage, not either miss it or outright instagib any tank with no chance of counterplay.

"Oh look a king tiger, i have muni, click, dead"

It should do some damage and eventually allow you to finish the enemy or fight it in a favorable engagement.

But at least should be a denied Ability, as you see in the video an immobilized Tiger took all p47 rockets strafes and still survived while Stuka could damage engine, stuns and kill the IS-2.

You don't even need to balance though damage, just reduce de CP and Ammo cost and would be OK.

Lets just say it this way.

It takes 40 seconds for P47 to deal all possible damage to target.
It takes around 50-55 seconds for Stuka to deal all possible damage.

P47 fly around the map from corner to corner, which means its harded to shot it donw.
Stuka fly over small circly and being much more vulnerable for AA.

P47 always have stable damage.
Stuka is kinda RNG dependant, because it can start attack from the front or from the rear armor, which makes huge difference.

And its all about heavies, mediums is a whole different story.

Lets just say it this way.

It takes 40 seconds for P47 to deal all possible damage to target.
It takes around 50-55 seconds for Stuka to deal all possible damage.

P47 fly around the map from corner to corner, which means its harded to shot it donw.
Stuka fly over small circly and being much more vulnerable for AA.

P47 always have stable damage.
Stuka is kinda RNG dependant, because it can start attack from the front or from the rear armor, which makes huge difference.

And its all about heavies, mediums is a whole different story.

I can do with mediuns, even with moving targets, I almost Guarantee that the result will be the same since Stuka damage engine and stuns.

Stop lying to yourself, just admit that Stuka is way superior than p47.