[Question] Weapon Penetration

I'm at the point in my mod I feel I'm ready to start messing with the tanks in regard to armor and penetration. I have the overall understanding how the system works. However, reading through the forums I ran across a post that mentioned something about "Penetration coefficient". Van't say I remember finding anything in the EBPS, Weapons, or Criticals. Any explanation would be appreciated.

I'm just going to take a shot in the dark about this. But coefficient in math is just the value before the variable. I.e. If you're given 5x, the coefficient is 5 and the variable is "x". So using this knowledge on how penetration/armor is the formula for penetration chance, the coefficient would be the value before the calculation is done i.e. pen 160/320 armor. penetration chance would then be 50%.

This is just my assumption. If possible it may be helpful to copy and paste the post where you saw this "Penetration coefficient" as well as the name of the poster.

Your take on math is roughly what I figured, but I'm not quite sure and I'm also not show how to edit this "value" with the attribute editor. Appreciate the input though.

Hi guys I am here again with a question:

Talking about tanks:

I am trying to give more realism to my mod. I already moded armor/penetration/damage of weapons for tanks.
I have decent values and the tank battles are pretty decent but not good enought.
Lets me explain myself better:

I can edit:

Ebps file:
. Armor rear/front
. Hitpoints

Weapons:

. Damage max/min + criticals on penetration
. Deflection damage
. Penetration near/mid/far
. Target type table to set specific damage/accuracy/penetration/suppression to an spedific unit

All this things are good but I am having problems to be more specific about weapons and his penetrations.

An example in my mod:
Chruchill MK VII 75 AP round vs Tiger armor

Penetrations:
Churchill MKVII 75mm AP far:45/ mid:60/ near:75

Armor
Tiger Frontal Armor: 300

Penetration coefficient: far:0.15/ mid:0.2/ near: 0.25

These values are too high for this unit in particular. Works ok with other tanks but I want to reduce those values specific for the frontal armor of my Tiger.
I could increase the frontal armor but all the weapons in the game will be affected by this change.
Then my question is:

Is there a posibility to modify the weapon penetration for an specific unit and also for frontal armor or rear armor ?
Because right now the tool is not specific in this point. At least I can not find the way to do it.

Thank you very much in advance
Olhausen

I don't think you can get a more realistic penetration system than the one implemented for the Fortress Europe mod:


Unfortunately, I've absolutely no idea how Eliw00d & co managed to implement any of that, but I am pretty sure it involves god-level knowledge of SCAR.

You can probably add a target table entry for Churchill vs Tigers for penetration, but that will also affect rear armour penetration.

Instead, if you want to differentiate between front hits and rear hits, the only way I can dream of this being possible is fool around with the critical_ext system under ebps.

In order to make this work, you need to:
- Assign a particular damage type to Churchil main gun (e.g., small_explosives, big_explosives) that is not used by anything else (unfortunately, Relic made it impossible to create new weapon_types, so you have to move things together
- Most likely, you will have to move all small_explosive weapons to big_explosive, and use small_explosive for your churchill gun
- For every critical group under health_ext, you need to add some extra stuff to execute for penetrating rear hits or deflecting front hits, so as to increase the potential of the front-armour with respect to rear-armour
- e.g., you can decrease Churchill penetration vs Tiger by a lot, but make it so that the tiger receives an additional 25% damage per rear penetrating hits from the Churchill weapon
- Finally, you have to go through every single entity type in the game; infantry, buildings, etc and make sure that they can receive the death critical from the weapon type you used (otherwise, your gun won't be able to finish stuff off)

Needless to say, this is a bit complicated; you should probably only defer to this solution at the final stages of your mod building.

As a rule of thumb, you want your mod to be easily modifiable/testable while you build up its core features. Then, once you feel you're done and you want to add some final touches, you add the messy bits and test your mod again.

Your take on math is roughly what I figured, but I'm not quite sure and I'm also not show how to edit this "value" with the attribute editor. Appreciate the input though.

Looks like the formula used in that post is either outdated of how pen/armor used to work or was modified. As you know penetration of a vehicle is simply penetration/armor to determine its chance to penetrate. So there doesn't seem to be a need to worry about penetration coefficient unless you want to do something with it.

There is no "coefficient" but rather a constant named k_penetrationRoundingAmount which is set to 0.03 (or 3%). That means that if the result of penetration divided by armor is less than 3% it is instead set to 0%.

It is documented in the AE when you click on armor under the health_ext of an ebps.

There is no "coefficient" but rather a constant named k_penetrationRoundingAmount which is set to 0.03 (or 3%). That means that if the result of penetration divided by armor is less than 3% it is instead set to 0%.

It is documented in the AE when you click on armor under the health_ext of an ebps.

Thank you for clarifying. I did notice the note or excerpt, just didn't know the correlation. Again thank you.

Btw, it is possible to have very good values toying with the math (regarding the penetrations)
I have very good armor values (frontal/rear) using

a. Front & rear values on ebps

b. Weapon extension:
1. Penetration values near/mid/far
2. Target tables using them depending on vehicle/buidling type

If you work in the correct way with those values you will have an excellent final result. In my case, in my mod, the armor rework took me about 6 month but it is worth the price.

Just give it a try is a nice way to give Coh2 a realistic touch.

Regards
Olhausen

Btw, it is possible to have very good values toying with the math (regarding the penetrations)
I have very good armor values (frontal/rear) using

a. Front & rear values on ebps

b. Weapon extension:
1. Penetration values near/mid/far
2. Target tables using them depending on vehicle/buidling type

If you work in the correct way with those values you will have an excellent final result. In my case, in my mod, the armor rework took me about 6 month but it is worth the price.

Just give it a try is a nice way to give Coh2 a realistic touch.

Regards
Olhausen

Thanks for the input. I really appreciate it. My first mod was for the original CoH. Took me 8 years to basically conclude it by myself. The new mod tools seem a bit limiting to me compared to Corsix's Mod Studio, which I understand that's what it's based off of. Just dusting off the cobwebs. haha