the Fall Balance Preview has been put on hold indefinitely.

For neither WBP nor GCS were we able to set the scope ourselves. We were just given a list of things to change. It's only FBP patch that we were able to set the scope ourselves; we gave Relic a list of 11 high-priority items, and we were allowed to fix the top 5 of them, kind of.

Don't you think the Scope was Relic's way of telling you that you were community patchers fixing bugs and balance, not junior game designers and devs?

A lot of mistakes were made in the process. e.g.,:
- The unfortunate handheld AT bug
- Being unable to convince more people to try out Penals (top player kept assuring us they never saw the point of going Penals anymore... when they could go for Maxims instead)
- Failing to adjust Luchs moving scatter and accuracy vs vehicles in time (though this one was overshadowed by posts crying out that PTRS Penals would make Luchs irrelevant; lol)
- Setting PIAT range too low (though that was before Cromwell nerfs, and amidst pagefuls of terrible off-the-mark feedback about enabling PIAT blobs)
- Failing to realise we could have reverted some Guards nerfs to keep them relevant after GCS patch (WBP guards were balanced according to OP maxims)
- Not pressing hard enough to completely lock M4C Sherman and Command Panther behind tech (the only two call-in vehicles in GCS patch scope..)
- Failing to realise, in time, that the only people that bothered to test GCS Maxims were doing so with bulletins stacked (which may be bugged).

However, given the restrictions of the scope, and bar those mistakes that are now easy to spot in hindsight, I don't think it was possible to do something more decent than this; we could have done a different kind of bad, however.

Relic's entire role was QA. They, most of all, couldn't just 'bar those mistakes'. I think it's a little telling with what you're saying is that a lot of the mistakes are the community's fault, apparently.

Don't you think the Scope was Relic's way of telling you that you were community patchers fixing bugs and balance, not junior game designers and devs?

Why don't you tell us precisely which changes you would introduce with each patch, if you were on our shoes.

Even though it's unfair, you also have the advantage of knowing in advance what the scope lottery brought up for the GCS patch, while you're designing the WBP patch; we didn't have this luxury.

Just to remind you, this is what we were given as a scope. Feel free to fill in the blanks as you want:

WBP patch
- Infantry scaling *
- Light vehicles **
- Guards & Penals***
- USF mortar

* You aren't allowed to touch OKW infantry or UKF infantry. You are also not allowed to touch underperforming USF infantry or underperforming Soviet infantry
** You are only allowed to change the following vehicles and nothing else: T-70, Quad (but not baseline M5), 222, Stug-E, Stuart, M15, Luchs, AEC. You aren't allowed to move vehicles around the tech tree. Also, you aren't allowed to touch USF tech freebies at all. You also aren't allowed to tweak tier prices.

GCS patch
You have to fix the following things without being allowed to touch anything else about the game:
- Maxim***
- Cromwell
- Comet
- Artillery Cover
- Landmattress
- Command Panther
- M4C Sherman

*** Even though it's so freaking obvious that everybody is just going to spam DSHKs, you aren't allowed to fix DSHK's, because logic.

Relic's entire role was QA. They, most of all, couldn't just 'bar those mistakes'. I think it's a little telling with what you're saying is that a lot of the mistakes are the community's fault, apparently.

Well, if you try fixing 200 bugs, of course there will be 2-3 ones coming out?

If your idea of maintaining a game is keeping all the bugs in, because you're too afraid to fix them, I'm sorry, I don't ascribe to that.

Why don't you tell us precisely which changes you would introduce with each patch, if you were on our shoes.

How far back you want me to go? From when Brad separated from Relic, or from WBP when Relic put on the clamps?

Either way I think my point, which I've been very consistent about, is that the bug fixes, QoL changes, and the kinds of balancing that affect all factions (grenade range reduction when suppressed, mines changes, squad formations) are the realms in which the community patch should really focus on.

If I had decided to be selfish about it I would've implemented the mod in my signature. Which wouldn't actually affected existing gameplay. It just would've given map makers better tools for producing content for the two map contests that occurred in this timespan.

If your idea of maintaining a game is keeping all the bugs in, because you're too afraid to fix them, I'm sorry, I don't ascribe to that.

I swear you guys have made an art of taking my point and approaching it from the absolute opposite direction.

There is nothing to think about. If you ask me to paint your house in blue for free and I accept and then I paint it in green, you have the right to complain. Doing things for free doesn't mean people can't complain about it.

Then you are a bad guy.

I will never ask someone paint my house for free.

IF I do and the guy paint it green.

I will stop buggering and fix it myself.

Is my house! not other people's house. Do you understand?

All the belly aching over the community balance team is such wasted effort, and so misguided. They were trying to fix a game while having both hands tied behind their back, and in spite of this did a great job at fixing a number of balance problems.

This is a great example of how not to treat an active and engaged community from the Relic end.

Very well said! Considering what it was: a group of passionately committed COH2 players who were basically making game patches for Relic, for free, but under extremely limited and contradictory conditions. It's amazing that they were still able to make a lot of much needed improvements and changes that they did.

Community patches being stopped can only hurt the game. Especially if Relic have even less interest or commitment to the game than the community. Which seems to be the case.

How long do we have to wait to find out if Relic will still be releasing patches, or removing all the known bugs.

So do we know whats going on with Relic or are we just going to wait for Coh3

So do we know whats going on with Relic or are we just going to wait for Coh3

coh3 is not coming soon with the recent news of AOE4 being developped by relic

I can't say thanks enough to the community balance team for working on this game while having one of the worst boss you could immagine (aka Relic), they did in a few month what relic have not managed to do during years

Come on guys, its not that bad, no one is dying and we still have little tourneys and some other little events, its up to us (the community) to keep this game alive

Anyone who has ever been in a company meeting would know that these things get decided on fast and without much thought if something bigger is coming (AOE4). The only real complaint is the lack of detail from relic as to why.

The vagueness sends one of two messages:
1. Relic or Kyle is too busy to deal with it. Leaving the COH2 community to feel like it means nothing.
2. The game is dead, play PUBG its more fun anyway.

So Relic is slitting its own throat by losing valuable members of its loyal fan base with its vague communications. How many people have uninstalled this week?

However, the RTS community loves to argue so maybe they are actually creating more interest and entertainment

So do we know whats going on with Relic or are we just going to wait for Coh3

What could have happened and so what could happen in the future.

1- Since months, Relic and Grosoft are on a deal to conclude a partnership on AOE4.
2- The deal is conclude but Relic can't start recruting new staff until Grosoft officially annonce the game.
3- Weeks or months are passing, Relic does not know when Grosoft is going to annonce the game, on the mean time, Relic allows some devs to work on Coh2 patchs.
4- Finally Grosoft decides to annonce AOE4, the deal start right now.
5- Relic need to hire new people, They can't have done that before the annoncement because it is part of the deal with Grosoft and of course also because they did't know when it does start. They may have started some shadow discussion with new staff but nothing official, so Relic decides to relocate all his people into AOE4 project until they reach critical mass + 1 or 2 and then send back some devs to Coh2's patchs design.

This can take weeks or months until they reach that critical mass for AOE4. I don't think COH2 support is doomed, they will come back later on it when they'll have people availabe.

PS: When I say Relic doesn't know when Microsoft will annonce the game, I mean they don't know until a week or two before, the deal may have been conclude 6 months ago. But that doesn't change the fact they can't hire people before.

I think the lack of an "emergency CoH3" to save Relic's economy can be a good thing.

What I loved about vCoH was how the verisimilitude (suppression, having to flank, armor that went "pling") made for beautiful gameplay. IMO, CoH should be more about simplicity than the messy diversity of OF or CoH2.

The thing is, simplicity really isn't easy. It requires more thinking, time and patience than coding. When you're going bankrupt, you just can't afford that.

So a pause for Relic, while they figure out how to do CoH3 in a simple manner that satisfies the vCoH (Wehr vs US) crowd, could turn out to be a blessing in disguise.

I think the lack of an "emergency CoH3" to save Relic's economy can be a good thing.

What I loved about vCoH was how the verisimilitude (suppression, having to flank, armor that went "pling") made for beautiful gameplay. IMO, CoH should be more about simplicity than the messy diversity of OF or CoH2.

The thing is, simplicity really isn't easy. It requires more thinking, time and patience than coding. When you're going bankrupt, you just can't afford that.

So a pause for Relic, while they figure out how to do CoH3 in a simple manner that satisfies the vCoH (Wehr vs US) crowd, could turn out to be a blessing in disguise.

Good point. However, CoH2 made Relic a lot more money than CoH ever did. I don't see them returning to CoH levels of simplicity. The DLC schematics, although gaining negative consensus from their player base, was very successful in their eyes. CoH3, if it ever comes, will have the same DLC nonsense that CoH2 had, but perhaps a little more subtle.

It is not about money, it is not about balance or some other shit, we are supossed to have fun, lets all try to forget about the tryharding rank and lets sbow Relic that this game isnt dead, we got some potencial here my dudes

Wished they fixed the map pool before pulling the plug.

Wished they fixed the map pool before pulling the plug.

If nothing else will happen in the future , I should manage to get the map pool changes. but more likely in some months

If nothing else will happen in the future , I should manage to get the map pool changes. but more likely in some months

Well, that is something at least.

Good point. However, CoH2 made Relic a lot more money than CoH ever did.

I very much disagree.

In my opinion, games are a lot like books; you "buy" the last book from the author you read.

I bought CoH2 because of a combination of false marketing and CoH1. I shat all over DoW3 on reddit etc. by being completely truthful about the experience I had with Relic on CoH2.

If CoH2 had been a brilliant game and Relic had been honest and supportive, I wouldn't have been out there being a killjoy and I might have bought it for shits'n giggles and to support Relic. I'll do stupid shit like that, I even bought skins whenever Relic released good patches, until I realized the abusive pattern of deliberately broken DLCs.

I don't think CoH2 made Relic money, I just think they sold their brand for cheap. Relic was known as CoH1 and Homeworld. Now they are known as CoH2 and DoW3.

That is the games-industry version of pissing your pants to keep warm.

And for what? For chasing fabled increased RTS sales-numbers rather than make a simple game budgeted for the very loyal crowd they already had.

l2p, all of you

l2p, all of you

THAT'S SO KAPPA!!!

*swoons*