FBP and Americans

I have a long history of playing the American faction, and I've been playing them just as much after the major rebalancing this past May.

I think it is widely acknowledged that USF is super-weak in team games. 2v2 on up to 4v4. Usually more than 1 USF player means a really tough game and/or a loss. I think this is in part because of macro-strategy, where USF players are very predictable and only have a few effective strategies left to them. I think it also has to do with the nerfs to riflemen, and the fact that the strongest team-game oriented commanders also lack elite infantry, which means that the nerfs to riflemen hit these team-competitive commanders doubly hard (as they have no other infantry choice).

I don't understand how the Fall Balance Patch doesn't include some buffs to under-used or just-plain-useless USF units. When I go through the list of USF changes, I see nothing but nerfs to their team-game strategies. Priests have been nerfed and increased upkeep. Calliopes were nerfed hard, and their best use (thinning axis blobs which already lack other solutions through USF units) has been explicitly taken away. AND their monstrously high cooldown has been increased as well. They also received increased upkeep and are even easier to dive and kill.

I don't see anything to make the Lieutenant tier viable; they nerfed the AA halftrack a couple of patches ago to "prevent the dominance of the Lt tier" and this resulted in nobody using it anymore, ever. This is sad because the US can really benefit from the .50 MG, but trading this for the utility of captain tier results in early losses almost every time. The weakness of bazookas on infantry less than Level 3 vet means that they can't effectively deal with axis mid-game mechanized units, resulting in manpower bleed no matter what the US player does. This in turn leads to a lack of mid-game production, which means that by the time USF has shermans and jacksons, the axis are up to panthers with doctrinal heavies not too far behind.

Given that team games progress into higher tech tiers faster than 1v1, this is already a huge factor that favors the superior combined arms and more powerful late game units that axis can field. Soviets and UKF can do some things to mitigate this, but by every account I have seen in actual experience and here in the form, people have resorted to "don't play USF in team games," and nobody seems to be proposing solutions to "rebalance" team games, which is the supposed intent of FBP.

What am I missing? How is FBP going to "balance" team games when the most useless faction only receives further nerfs?

USF finally gets a late game. Jacksons are worth it, you should try them in FBP

What am I missing? How is FBP going to "balance" team games when the most useless faction only receives further nerfs?

A) Jackson buff
B) Axis nerf on almost every TD
C) Pakhowie buff
D) Walking Stuka nerf
E) Stuka divebomb nerf

All this were big Problems for USA i agree. USA in Liveversion is pain in the a*** to Play. Try to Play some 2vs2-4vs4 with USA with the FBP.

"i see only nerf to usf" good bait bro

OP was not intended to be a "bait."

Under the most recent changelog, the Jackson's range and accuracy were debuffed. They gave it a small boost in HP but ALSO combined this with the intended use being "get close and wreck." Getting closer to the target also means getting closer to shreks, paks, RWs, and other tanks, so the health buff will be mitigated by higher incoming damage.

Additionally, giving the US a "lategame" now doesn't address the fact that lieutenant tier has still been nerfed to oblivion. FBP hasn't helped that a lick.

Nerfing the other factions while ALSO hitting US with nerfs will still leave them floundering.

Pack howi and bulldozer sherman are part of the "arcing projectiles" fix and so this hardly counts as a buff.

Yeah, I´m not sure which buffs would help though, since the factions weakness is the core desing

That army is based on: Mainline infantry (over)reliance, flanking, aggresivity, and later on picking sh%it off from safe distance. First three are, given the map desinges, utterly impossible and the last works only until axis gets tank destroyers

"Asymmetrical balance works!" my ass.

Yeah, I´m not sure which buffs would help though, since the factions weakness is the core desing

That army is based on: Mainline infantry (over)reliance, flanking, aggresivity, and later on picking sh%it off from safe distance. First three are, given the map desinges, utterly impossible and the last works only until axis gets tank destroyers

This. Doesn't really help when the US's "versatility" is limited to racks/shell swapping/smoke (the latter of which is admittedly pretty damn good) and out of ~15 units, 2 are rifle clones, 2 are dedicated non-combat units and one is REs while another 3 are probably locked to you thanks to tech choice and your early/mid doctrinal options are all utter garbage outside limited cheesing.

Things are definitely a bit better with the FBP, but no amount of tweaking is going to fix their god-awful core design.

This. Doesn't really help when the US's "versatility" is limited to racks/shell swapping/smoke (the latter of which is admittedly pretty damn good) and out of ~15 units, 2 are rifle clones, 2 are dedicated non-combat units and one is REs while another 3 are probably locked to you thanks to tech choice and your early/mid doctrinal options are all utter garbage outside limited cheesing.

Things are definitely a bit better with the FBP, but no amount of tweaking is going to fix their god-awful core design.

Don't forget that you'll never have access to a lot of neccessary options like flamers, mgs, at guns, rocket arty, and non-squishy tanks, depending on doctrine and tech choice.

This. Doesn't really help when the US's "versatility" is limited to racks/shell swapping/smoke (the latter of which is admittedly pretty damn good) and out of ~15 units, 2 are rifle clones, 2 are dedicated non-combat units and one is REs while another 3 are probably locked to you thanks to tech choice and your early/mid doctrinal options are all utter garbage outside limited cheesing.

Things are definitely a bit better with the FBP, but no amount of tweaking is going to fix their god-awful core design.

It's often better to build 4 Rifles then Spam Shermans, so long as you keep Bazooka Echelons in tow to help repair tanks quicker, Versatily comes at the cost of being fairly predictable.
I'm still positive about the new patch helping the Jackson find it's niche.

Don't forget that you'll never have access to a lot of neccessary options like flamers, mgs, at guns, rocket arty, and non-squishy tanks, depending on doctrine and tech choice.

And mines, those things that win games.

It's often better to build 4 Rifles then Spam Shermans, so long as you keep Bazooka Echelons in tow to help repair tanks quicker, Versatily comes at the cost of being fairly predictable.
I'm still positive about the new patch helping the Jackson find it's niche.

Yeah, that's what I've been finding and that's sort of my issue with the US, by design they don't really use combined arms outside the token rifle + callin armor combo. The Jackson change will definitely help this a bit late game and just fits their design so much better, but the US is still, as you said, very inflexible.

I know "don't play USF in teamgames" is a frustrating reply, but it does have some element of truth. USF simply isn't great for teamgames because their emphasis on Rifle play making them quite predictable and overall bad support weapon quality/availability, and lack of lategame armor.

On the support weapons:

USF mortar range sucks dong. At least it's t0 and is always available though.

HMG is locked behind LT tier, which as others have pointed out, seriously gimps you in teamgames since you didn't go Captain. If you backtech to LT later on to have an MG, good luck with your 50cal vs. Vet 5 STG Volksblobs/etc. that will swarm and kill it before it can get any suppression off.

ATG is actually really damn good in terms of firing arc and range, seriously that vet range ability is just crazy. However it lacks pen, and even if you pay 30 muni everytime you engage a tank you only get up to around zis levels of pen afaik. This isn't a problem in 1v1 where it's great at fending off or outright killing light to medium tanks. However pretty much all you're going to see in teamgames is Panthers and above, and their armor may as well be a trampoline to USF ATG rounds.

Current Jackson is too fragile and managing multiple is a micro nightmare as long as the enemy has two braincells and is using proper AT support. Even in FBP the Firefly still overshadows the Jackson in teamgames because it's a lot better at busting through heavy armor, plus Tulips.

I agree that while Callope and Priest cheese might be frustrating, they are basically all USF has to bring to the table. In terms of support weapons, medium TD's, etc. you'd rather just play Brits/Soviet.

This mean USF main Attacker and Soviet or UKF go to support role ?